Initial Thoughts ... (Patriots lose to Arizona Cardinals) - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

PatriotFan77 · 09-16-2012, 04:11 PM

I have a razor blade on my wrist as I say this but Eli looks like the new Brady

***Deus Irae*** · 09-16-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

I thought the Pats should have won the game, but didn't "deserve" too. The reasons I thought they didn't "deserve" it:

1. Their intensity and focus seemed lacking, to an extent that I haven't seen since the 2010 Cleveland game. Arizona played with more intensity, and gave me the impression that they wanted it more.

2. The team made too many mistakes in key spots. Missing game winning field goals. Giving up points on ST turnovers.

3. There were too many sloppy mistakes and penalties, and the Pats failed to capitalize on several opportunities.

With that in mind, by those standards Philadelphia probably didn't "deserve" to beat Baltimore, and the Giants probably didn't "deserve" to beat Tampa Bay. But both teams hung in and made enough plays to win. The Pats hung in too, and then couldn't convert when it counted.

See, you're arguing things that happen in pretty much every game suddenly equal not deserving to win. I don't buy that argument. You don't deserve a win when you come out flat and stay that way, when you benefit from a gift call, you get a lucky bounce, or something like that. That's not what happened today. Today, the lost the player that so many here have been insisting the team is game planning around, had their best receiver seemingly playing at less than 100%, missing their OG1 because he's home on his couch and their OG2 because of injury, and were forced to fight their way out of an early hole.

If they'd won, people would be touting a gritty comeback. Because they lost, their trying to rationalize that loss.

***AndyJohnson*** · 09-16-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Observer

It wasnt that difficult to win in the end. Kick the ball in. But we choked, becoming a habit now.

Becoming a habit? From the team that wins more often than any other?
Please explain.
I think what you really mean is on the rare occassions that the Patriots rule, it is now a habit for your to categorize it a choke.

***mayoclinic*** · 09-16-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Good post, but I am going to comment on this one point.
I will never understand how a fan determines what the intensity of the team was from their TV set.
The Patriots didn't make as many plays as they needed to today, but why would we need to guess that they were ambivalent or didn't care to focus?
How come whenever we win, we were great, and its not the other team lack focus and intensity?

It's obviously subjective. But win or lose, I didn't see the same level of overt energy that I saw last week. Maybe that's just a byproduct of Arizona playing good defense. But I commented on it during the game, and would have felt that way regardless of the outcome. Obviously, I'm not the authority on how the team actually played, and BB will make his own determination regarding their effort, focus and intensity.

PatsFaninAZ · 09-16-2012, 04:13 PM

Well, to the extent I was on the fence before, I'm now convinced that the "deserves" argument (or its close cousin the debate about whether the losing team was "better") is officially the dumbest debate in sports.

To quote a good movie, deserve's got nothing to do with it.

***Deus Irae*** · 09-16-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

They deserved to have the game come down to one or two critical plays that could have decided it either way.

Yup... and that's where the holding call comes in.

***AndyJohnson*** · 09-16-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotFan77

I have a razor blade on my wrist as I say this but Eli looks like the new Brady

You should toss the razor blade and visit the optometrist.

TheBostonStraggler · 09-16-2012, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Good post, but I am going to comment on this one point.
I will never understand how a fan determines what the intensity of the team was from their TV set.
The Patriots didn't make as many plays as they needed to today, but why would we need to guess that they were ambivalent or didn't care to focus?
How come whenever we win, we were great, and its not the other team lack focus and intensity?

I'm with you on this. Coincidence that no one ever won a game where fans claimed they lacked heart and intensity? Probably not. The single criteria for lacking heart or intensity appears to be losing.
However I will say this, the Patriots are a lot younger this year. With a younger team it should not be surprising for them to look like they lack focus -- when it reality it simply is new guys still feeling their way through the NFL....

PatriotFan77 · 09-16-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

You should toss the razor blade and visit the optometrist.

You're right Eli didn't comeback today, I clearly saw them lose.

***AndyJohnson*** · 09-16-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Yup... and that's where the holding call comes in.

Sure. But not being able to overcome 1 bad call is where the ideas that they deserved to win or didn't deserve to win are both incorrect.
As I said they deserved to be in a close game that could be a win or a loss based upon clutch play, good fortune or uncontrollable factors such as a bounce or the officials.