BlueThunder

If Vereen is healthy this season, I'd expect him to add a few yards to the Pats passing game, especially having Josh back as OC.

The above is just an opinion....

"Vereen has nice soft hands and shows a good ability to catch the ball. He caught 74 passes in his career at Cal, including 6 for touchdown. He adjusts to throws pretty cleanly, and doesn’t drop a lot of passes. He secures the ball well before making a move. Vereen ran quite an array of different routes at Cal, more than your typical back. He understands the passing game and will be effective right away in this area in the NFL. "

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patchick

That's pretty much where I am. By the rules of the article, which didn't consider RBs as pass catchers, I'd rank the Patriots #1. They were probably #3 last year with bubkes at wideout; replace bubkes with Brandon Lloyd and Jabar Gaffney and they eke out a lead in the OIFL (Offseason Imaginary Football League). But factor in pass-catching RBs and the Saints take the crown. They're the best in the league in that department hands down, though I do predict more production in the passing game from the Pats backfield this year, with BJGE out and McDaniels in.

Once fall comes and the NFL replaces the OIFL, of course, lots could change for both teams. E.g. how will the coaching change and defensive suspensions affect the Saints' offense?

Deus Irae

And I'm not doing that. It's not as if I'm saying that we can only rate the Patriots corps in the absence of Lloyd/Gaffney/Johnson/Stallworth. I'm simply saying that we can't assume, or even fairly argue, a leap over other great receiving groups at this time.

To give an example, we can actually look to Lloyd. Brady is on record as having said that he kept looking away from Lloyd because Lloyd wasn't open in his time window. When he went back and looked at the film, he found that Lloyd was, in fact, getting open on his routes, it was just not in the same speed/manner that Brady was looking for. So, how do we determine that will mesh well? I think it's a great sign, and I've said so. But, what if it becomes Chad Johnson part 2, and we never get past hearing about how close they are?

I agree, and I think time will tell, but there are too many unknowns right now to be ranking them over the Saints and Packers, IMO. If the Patriots are running 2/2/1 all the time, for example, the only significant difference is going to be Lloyd.

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Deus Irae

Of course I can, and history shows it. The playbook is talked about as being difficult, and by players in the league, so I'm not saying it's not. That's not what you're arguing, though. I've asked this question before. So far, nobody's found a single example:

Give examples of a WR who thrived before getting to NE (BB era), struggled with the playbook in NE, and then went on to thrive elsewhere in the league.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

patsfaninpittsburgh

Thanks pherein.

patsfaninpittsburgh wasn't Edgar Cayce in a past life...but did consider staying at a Holiday Inn this past week while on business.

Rob0729

Talk about rigging the system. That isn't exactly a fair question. Many of the veterans who failed in this system never played for another team after the Pats like Donald Hayes and Joey Galloway. Bethel Johnson arguably had his best year with the Vikings after he left, but he still sucked with the Vikes. Ochocinco could prove you wrong this year.

The problem with your theory is that many of the players regardless the system after they leave the Pats for poor play never play again in the league -see Adalius Thomas and Shawn Springs. Many teams feel that if a player can't fit in with Brady and Belichick, they cannot fit in anywhere.

But who said that is the only standard you can use to prove that many WRs struggle with the playbook. Donald Hayes came out and said he did. It was clear that Ochocinco had problems with the playbook, but he still had the talent level. Joey Galloway was cut because Brady and Belichick were frustrated that Galloway wasn't putting in the effort to learn the plays.

The fact of the matter is that the Patriots strategy of taking older and unheralded free agents works against the free agents that work out. They basically become poison to a lot of teams and many never get another chance. It happens with a lot of other teams too.

Frezo

All of the Saints WR are under 30 except one who is 30.
The Pats have 5 WR that are over 30.
So this means that the Pats will be better because they have more experience.
Or...
The Saints will be better because they are less likely to be injured and will recover faster if they are.
It's all POV.

Projections are amusing, but only accurate in a very general sense.
Of course I'm totally biased towards the Pats and project them to be amazing.

Bobs My Uncle

I see the Pats and Saints as 1a and 1b. Kinda like a Ferrari and a Lambo.

Deus Irae

I'm not rigging the system at all. You made a claim. I'm asking you to back it up with examples. You've come up with none. Also:

Galloway played after the Patriots, Rob (10 games, 4 starts, 12 catches with the Redskins in 2010).

Bethel started with the Patriots, so he clearly doesn't apply since there's no 'control' element of pre-Patriots time.

The number of examples remains at "0". Johnson seems poised to become the first, and the reports are that he struggled with 'the playbook' with the Bungles, too, but they worked around it, so this isn't something that's exclusive to Mr. Johnson's time with the Patriots.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

patsinthesnow

Go ahead and count sproles.


1. Welker
2. Gronkowski
3. Hernandez
4. Lloyd
5. Gaffney

vs.

1. Graham
2. Sproles
3. Colston
4. Moore
5. Henderson

Here's my biased look at it.

Welker is a better #1 WR than Colston.
Lloyd is a better #2 WR than Moore.
Gronkowski is a better #1 TE than Graham.
Gaffney is a better #3 WR/5th option than Henderson.

Than it's Hernandez vs. Sproles, take your pick.

The stats back that up too.