NE offense is too complex for receiver X (e.g., Mike Wallace) myth - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

Banjo · 03-12-2012, 11:15 PM

It can't be that complex. Just run when Brady yells "Alpha GO"!

rabidfireweasel · 03-13-2012, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmasspatsfan

Branch is a good example of someome that thrived in this system but didnt do much in Seattle, he'd probably already be out of football if he wasnt with the Pats.

No he isn't. Deion Branch, in his first 3 years with Seattle had remarkably similar stats in terms of yards per catch, yards per game and TD's as he did in NE.

NE Yards/Game YPC TDs
2003 53.3 14.1 3
2004 50.4 13.0 4
2005 62.4 12.8 5
SEA
2006 51.8 13.7 4
2007 60.1 13.5 4
2008 51.5 13.7 4

Branch was pretty much the exact same guy.

***NEGoldenAge*** · 03-13-2012, 06:45 AM

How much evidence does one need? It is not the pre-snap adjustments that are the problem, it is the post-snap adjustments that have to happen at game speed. It's not a matter of understanding the offense, you have to recognize many things and make several split second adjustments while executing a precise route.

Gumby · 03-13-2012, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kudzif

A lot of people say oh we should not bring a receiver like Wallace for example because the offence is too complex. Also, there is the theory that receivers have generally failed in NE because they could not grasp the offence. I think this is false because if you really look at the free agent wrs we have brought over the years they have all been Wrs whose best days are gone(Galloway) or were just never really good .As for the draft pick wrs that did not pan out in NE , none of them has ever gone on to do anything significant at any other team with a so called simpler offense, and most of them are out of the NFL. We have never had a wr on top of his game come here (highly regarded free agent WR ) and fail and don't mention Chad he had been declining for years now. Our problem at this position is we have been trying to outsmart the NFL ,but the NFL has valued these guys appropriately , and our drafting at this position sucks. Is our offense more complex than others probably , but the case for it being the cause for the failure rate at the WR position has been overstated.

I'll let the rest of you argue about the complexity of the offense argument; although I think that kudzif is flawed there too.

As for the "NFL has valued these guys properly." If my memory serves me correctly; the wr position has about the highest bust rate of #1s. How can that be properly valued???

And it is indisputable that wr is the most DIVA position on the field. If you take away Sanchize; even the 31 starting QBs don't have anywhere near the laundry list of egotist, look at me types compared to WRs.

Now I would agree that the Pats havent used #1/2 picks on WRs much. But frankly if the choice is to get a massive OL or DL who will anchor one side of the ball for 10 years or get some T.O. wanna-be who will be with us for 3 team-dividing years and then bolt for the most cash he can find.....give me the Solders or Wilforks every time.

PatriotDynasty_12 · 03-13-2012, 08:01 AM

I'm sorry, but you didn't real state anything to back up your case.

***Rob0729*** · 03-13-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappy

How much evidence does one need? It is not the pre-snap adjustments that are the problem, it is the post-snap adjustments that have to happen at game speed. It's not a matter of understanding the offense, you have to recognize many things and make several split second adjustments while executing a precise route.

I disagree. How many times do we see Brady get upset when the throws the ball to one place and his receiver runs a different route? With guys who struggle with the offense, quite a bit.

It is a combination of a lot of things that makes this offense so hard to grasp. It is the presnap reads and the post snap adjustments. Many times, they go hand-in-hand.

everlong · 03-13-2012, 08:23 AM

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. However is it worth the risk of the 6/60, and it could be more, that it will take to bring in Wallace or Jackson? The second thing that does is set the bar for Welker. Are you going to give him 4/40, or more? Any receiver they bring in is coming in under market value or on a prove it deal. You aren't doing a one year prove it deal with Wallace and giving up a first and if you did the Steelers would gladly match that deal or even take the first rounder laughing. They aren't going to pay the top two WRs 20M combined. That's a sixth of the salary cap on two players.

The most I see them paying is a guy like Reggie Wayne a 3/18 type of deal and I'm sure he's looking for his last big paycheck and won't take that anyway. I think you can get Lloyd in that range and he's the most likely and has lower risk having already succeeded in the system and Josh can work with him.

Garbanza · 03-13-2012, 08:56 AM

Great. Just because Chad Ocho-crappo Johnson ended up being a COLLOSAL failure - now the fanbase is afraid of a GREAT talent like Wallace.

Please....football God's.....rid the Patriots of that waste of time, Chad. Please. Pretty please....putting a cherry on top....

***MoLewisrocks*** · 03-13-2012, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by everlong

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. However is it worth the risk of the 6/60, and it could be more, that it will take to bring in Wallace or Jackson? The second thing that does is set the bar for Welker. Are you going to give him 4/40, or more? Any receiver they bring in is coming in under market value or on a prove it deal. You aren't doing a one year prove it deal with Wallace and giving up a first and if you did the Steelers would gladly match that deal or even take the first rounder laughing. They aren't going to pay the top two WRs 20M combined. That's a sixth of the salary cap on two players.

The most I see them paying is a guy like Reggie Wayne a 3/18 type of deal and I'm sure he's looking for his last big paycheck and won't take that anyway. I think you can get Lloyd in that range and he's the most likely and has lower risk having already succeeded in the system and Josh can work with him.

Supposedly the Saints and Colston are grappling over 5 @ $7M. I don't think Reggie is going to get 6/$18M except from whichever team signs his QB. He may get $6M up front or $10M guaranteed but he will be on a year to year deal. Bedard thinks that Lloyd's market will be more along the lines of $3M-4M per. Or Ocho money.

everlong · 03-13-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoLewisrocks

Supposedly the Saints and Colston are grappling over 5 @ $7M. I don't think Reggie is going to get 6/$18M except from whichever team signs his QB. He may get $6M up front or $10M guaranteed but he will be on a year to year deal. Bedard thinks that Lloyd's market will be more along the lines of $3M-4M per. Or Ocho money.

If they can get Lloyd for 4/16 and Wayne for 4/20 that would be awesome. Their offense would pretty much be untouchable when healthy. Throw in Branch and a draft pick for depth.

Perhaps I'm overrating the WR market in terms of money/year. I've been using Santonio Holmes awful contract as a baseline but maybe teams have realized how stupid that was.