borg

The MVP race has been muddied up and shoe-in Aaron Rodgers is hanging on for dear life despite Brees' record setting yards and Flynn's airshow in Rodgers' offense.
On another board, sentiments are leaning toward Brees because he threw 150 more passes than Rodgers and set records. I argued that Brees has the greatest arsenal of weapons in the NFL with 4 NFL caliber RBs, 1 All World TE, and 3 high grade WRs compared to Green Bay with a premium set of WRs, a quality TE, and JAG RBs.
A closer look at stats show that the Saints RBs account for 3300+ yds rushing/receiving vs 2400 for GB.
At TE, Graham gained about 600 yds more than Finley.
Saints RBs and TEs caught 90 more passes than GB's counterparts.
These stats alone show that Brees runs a very efficient low risk offense. Yards per attempt favored GB ....13 to 11.....and yards per catch favored GB by 1 yd.

But most interesting to me was YAC....Yards after catch. A top 40 list of NFL pass catchers has 3 Saints in the top 17....Sproles, Thomas, and Graham combining for over 1500 YAC....while GB has only Nelson cracking the top 40 with 380 YAC.

The disparity in stat makeup reminds me of the old arguement....Marino vs Montana/Young........down field vs west coast......pure passer vs systems QB.

Enter Brady into this conversation.....in particular....YAC

#1 YAC = Wes Welker.....707
#5 Gronk......632
#20 Hernandez.....417.......total= 1756 YAC

Amazing ....32 teams and the Pats have 3 players in the top 20.

So the Question for the board: Does high YAC team stats hurt Brees and Brady's MVP qualifications and does a low YAC/high YPA/YPC help Rodgers

YAC stats.... 2011 NFL Player Receiving Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Peter King does a nice job explaining why he believes Rodgers deserves the MVP over Brees
Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees make NFL MVP race interesting - Peter King - SI.com

__________________
"In the end, Belichick juiced Moss like an orange, and once all the good pulp was squeezed, he tossed Moss aside. "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PatsGirl2011

Rodgers is going to win end of discussion. Sorry, even Sean Peyton's attempt at stat padding isn't going to help Brees. Yes, the Saints and Packers throw the ball a lot. I swear it seems like Rodgers throw the ball every down, seriously. However, The media gave the MVP to Rodgers a long time ago. Not enough time to swing the vote. As for the YAC,teams play to the ability of their players. Case close! TB has succeeded with Randy Moss, Troy Brown, David Givens, Branch etc.

AndyJohnson

I do not think any adjustment should be made for YAC.
All yards count the same, and many are created by the way you defend a QB.
For example if you blitz a QB heavily he must get rid of the ball more quickly but those plays have a greater likelihood of YAC. While a QB who has more time to throw facing zones will complete passes further down the field without as much chance at YAC.

borg

Forgive me for hijacking my very own thread....but take a look at Jonathan Stewart...

2011 NFL Player Receiving Stats - National Football League - ESPN

The RB averages 5 yds/carry, caught 47 passes...all in a platoon with D Williams.
5'11" 235.....1 year left on his contract...$1.3 mill.
I admit, Stewart is my Binky.....ever since '09 when he took over for a hurt D Williams and ran amuck.....and what I remember most is....he steamrolled LBs and broke tackles. And now he catches passes as well. This is my Patriots dream 3 down back. Bulldozer Corey Dillon size, Fred Jackson hands (:

Can Stewart be had....in the same manner BB grabbed Welker, with a #2 plus sweetener? Carolina has issues on D. They signed Deangelo Williams to a crazy contract. Only 1 year left on Stewarts contract. At least the #2 will get a guy that can impact the team vs other #2s that....ahem, cough cough.

The YAC list is a who's who of players I'd love on NE.....Rice, Stewart, Jackson, Forte. Lets get Stewart this year and Cruz in '13........yeah baby

__________________
"In the end, Belichick juiced Moss like an orange, and once all the good pulp was squeezed, he tossed Moss aside. "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ALP

i dont see why YAC should not be a factor, almost everything should count, and yes, i believe this should

a 50 yd screen pass is not the same as a 50 yd bomb

i was leaning heavily towards brees as the MVP until you post as a matter of fact....now i see whay aaron is prob the best choice

note: YAC is not solely on the reciever, but DOES have a good amount to do with the QB, and how good he throws (ie hitting wr in stride)

__________________
Last time I lived in New England the Pats became a Dynasty

Then I moved away and they haven't won since

...now I'm moving back, and a Lombardi I predict

borg

Another way to look at the Brees/Rodgers matchup......If Rodgers equalled Brees' pass attempts, he would have thrown for 1000+ more yards than Brees assuming Rodgers maintained his YPA of 13.
Read the King analysis....he factors in wins, losses,multiple INT games, head to head.
I added quality of weapons, risk of offense, and YAC.
The Brees lovers arguement comes down to.....10 passes to go 80 yards is better than 8 passes to go 80 yards.

__________________
"In the end, Belichick juiced Moss like an orange, and once all the good pulp was squeezed, he tossed Moss aside. "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

borg

Patriots(3rd) had 60 more pass attempts than Green Bay(14)

__________________
"In the end, Belichick juiced Moss like an orange, and once all the good pulp was squeezed, he tossed Moss aside. "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

AndyJohnson

Comparing a 50 yard screen to a 50 yard bomb as if 1 QB only throws one and another only throws the other is silly.
Realistically the difference is more like a fraction of a yard per completion different. Are we really saying a QB that completes in an average of 8.25 yards downfield and got 4 yac is playing a different game than the QB who completed it 8 yards downfield and got 5 yac?

And again, game plan, how you are defensed and accuracy can account for all of that as well.

AndyJohnson

There is no question Rodgers should be the MVP.
He lead his team to 13-0 (or whatever it was before they lost) by being the best player on the field in all of those games.
Rodgers is the primary reason that his team had the best regular season.
Brees compiled the most yards by throwing the most times.
There is a significant difference in those things.

JJDChE

Stewart will be pricey. He's a first round pick who has been in a RBBC committee his whole career, yet excelled every time he's had his chances. He's big and fast and shown he can tote the rock for big ypa and catch the ball out of the backfield. And he's 24. It's the Michael Turner situation all over again. Pats won't be able to sniff Stewart's salary demands. He'll be the focal point of some crap team's offense.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.