For you Gostkowski haters - Page 7 - New England Patriots Forums

lawrence welker · 12-30-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwedd

Thanks, man. I thought I'd permanently repressed all the memories of "Missin' Sisson". Now I can return to those nightmares and frustrations of seasons past. Might as well drag out the Tony Eason pics too.

Sigh.

You can borrow my Hugh Millen dart board, if you think it might help.

Naugy Nugget · 12-30-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Brady was all set for 2009, too.
Welker was all set for 2010, too.

Players come back from major injuries, and they talk about being fully healed and the like, but they don't get back to "100%" until time heals what needs healing.

Translation: I really don't know if he's healing or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

The only one with BS histrionics is yourself. Clearly you have issues with people having opinions about your opinions.

No, I just have issues with posters who feel they need to use put-downs like "silly" to describe other's opinions, and use words like "clearly" to indicate they words are akin to the Word of God, and use expressions like "people like yourself" to indicate their self-claimed superiority. In other words, bull***** histrionics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

BTW, Gostkowski has hit 26 of 31 FGs this year, which is just slitghly below his career average. And 3 of the misses were from beyond 40 yards. 1 of them beyond 50 yards. I am judging him on the here and now. I wish you would.

Clearly you have never had a major leg injury of any sort. You don't understand about the muscle loss that takes place and how much rehab is required to get them back to even 90%. And Gostkowski's Quad was torn entirely off the bone. Which means no rehab prior to the surgery and a longer time before being able to start the rehab and slower intervals to ensure that it's not damaged again. And, before you ask, I do know about the sort of muscle atrophy that occurs because, after I tore my ACL, my thigh went from being 23in circumference to about 16.625 in. in about 3 months. And it took me 18 months to get it back to 21 in. And I wasn't fully healed. And I am also taking into considering the advances they've made today vs. when I tore my ACL almost 15 years ago.

So, while Gostkowski might have been cleared with no limitations, that doesn't mean his leg strength is back to 100%. That's what I was getting at. Just like Welker wasn't back to 100% when he started playing again after his surgery.

Hey, all I said was that in my opinon, based on this year's stats, he's an average kicker. In fact what I did say was:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naugy Nugget

To me, Gostkowski is an average kicker, and his middle-of-the-road field goal percentage supports that. I don't get a surge of confidence when he strides onto the field, nor do I get an anxiety attack. I hope that doesn't make me a "hater" in your book. There are times when his play p*sses me off, but that's true for everyone on the team (ok, well, Wilfork never pisses me off! :-) ).

Yes, no player is perfect and makes every play, but he's had some frustrating, "I can't explain why" type of misses this season, as others have pointed out in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeymourTrophies

The only problem with Gost is that he misses some easy ones, easy being a relative term when you're referring to kicking a frozen oval. The miss against Jacksonville in 07 and the giants game this year stick out to me as head-scratchers. As long as the confusing shanks stay that few and far between, I'm okay with him.

Agree.

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Originally Posted by PATSYLICIOUS

But if next year comes and he is still middle of the pack in FG% and towards the bottom in TB%, we've got to part ways with that contract.

Welcome to some people's hater's list.

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Originally Posted by Jackson 2

Thanks for the reasoned response. I still really like him. Perhaps, for me, it was missing the 27 yarder (a glorified PAT) just before half-time in our loss to the Giants which sticks in my mind. It was at home, no weather involved as I remember and it ended up being huge in that game. But, I think labeling anyone who is uneasy about G. as a "hater" is really extreme.

+1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach42

I was unaware that there were Gostowski haters. Apparently no one on this team is above ignorant fan's scorn.

There really aren't haters on this thread. It's just a label being thrown around, and about as effective as name calling at school recess.

I suppose we could all trade posts about how great every Pat is, but personally I think that'd make for a pretty boring experience. It'd be like Da Bears skit on SNL replayed ad infinitum.

***DaBruinz*** · 12-30-2011, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATSYLICIOUS

Yep, also missed a very makeable FG in Pittsburgh that in the past he'd make in his sleep. It was a huge miss too at the time, could have made it a one score game. There were a couple others too this year. No denying he's been less reliable this season, but hopefully he bounces back next year.

Where do you come up with this stuff? He's been "less reliable" because he's less than a full % point off his career average?

Gost was 10/13 last year. Which is 77%. As a rookie, he was only 20/26. His best was being 36/40, or 90% which was in 2008. And in that year, he had 2 misses from the 20-29 range, and 2 from the 40-49 range. And only attempted 1 from 50+.

This idea that he's been somehow "less reliable" just doesn't hold water. Especially when you consider that his leg isn't back to 100% strength..

PatsFanSince74 · 12-30-2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricorn Hat

So who would folks rather have, Vinatieri?

If Gostkowski misses short and long kicks, how does he have a better FG% than Adam playing for the Pats?
...

It's not about stats. As others have pointed out, Gostkowsk's stats are solid. The answer to your question:

Patriots Tie Raiders Vinatieri Snow Bowl - YouTube

Plus the winning kick in that game and the first two walk-off winning kicks in the history of the SB (OK, there were four seconds left in SB XXXVIII).

In fairness to Gostkowski, he hasn't had a chance to do anything like that, but heads are still scratched about BB's decision to go for it on fourth and 13 in FG range in a dome in that game whose name shall not be mentioned.

***DaBruinz*** · 12-30-2011, 09:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Naugy Nugget

Translation: I really don't know if he's healing or not.

Yet, instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt and take into consideration that he's still regaining leg strength, you chose to crap on him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naugy Nugget

No, I just have issues with posters who feel they need to use put-downs like "silly" to describe other's opinions, and use words like "clearly" to indicate they words are akin to the Word of God, and use expressions like "people like yourself" to indicate their self-claimed superiority. In other words, bull***** histrionics.

So, yes, you have issues with people who voice their opinions about your opinions and them thinking that your comments are silly. And if your self-confidence is so poor that you think that a comment being called silly is a put down, then i suggest you seek out some psychiatric help.

As for my use of the expression "people like yourself" it has to do with grouping like-minded people together. It has nothing to do with "self-claimed superiority". Again, it comes across that your self-confidence is non-existent and that you have bigger issues that you really should be dealing with.

BTW, my words aren't histrionics. I'm not acting as if people are hating on Gost.. They are doing so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naugy Nugget

Hey, all I said was that in my opinon, based on this year's stats, he's an average kicker. In fact what I did say was:

We know what you said and you clearly ignored a mitigating circumstance because of your own admitted ignorance on the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naugy Nugget

I suppose we could all trade posts about how great every Pat is, but personally I think that'd make for a pretty boring experience. It'd be like Da Bears skit on SNL replayed ad infinitum.

Another person who thinks that there is only black and white.

Let's rehash:
You formed an "opinion" and ignored relevant facts.
When those facts are pointed out and you are grouped with the people who have also ignored those facts, you claim others are using histrionics.
When said facts are pointed out, you essentially ignore them and stick to your "opinion".

Yet, you want to be taken seriously?

PatsFanSince74 · 12-30-2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Well, he's following a legend, and BB passed on the FG attempt in 2007. Until he gets his own 2001-like opportunities, he'll always be denigrated by some.

Agreed. Whether that's fair or unfair, "it is what it is." He's following the only kicker in decades who will get serious consideration for a bust in Canton five years after he retires and, IMO, will be elected.

And, some of us still have the image in our minds of Gostkowski missing a kick towards the end of the first half of the Pats 2009 game vs. the Saints in the Superdome from within a yard or two of the exact same spot and towards the same end of the field where Adam kicked the game winner in SB XXXVI.

PATSYLICIOUS · 12-30-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

Being a FG kicker is about consistency. And that is what Ghost has brought the Pats. Hence why he's rated in the top 10 ALL TIME of FG kickers based on %.

As for the TB%, that is not an accurate way to judge him, especially, as pointed out, that there is a very good chance that the Pats aren't wanting him to kick TBs since they are limiting teams so well with their Kick Coverage.

Definitely not questioning Ghost's reliability career wise, he's been very good. The question is do we get the kicker that he's been most of his career or are we going to get this year's version of Ghost, which is average to below average percentage wise when compared league wide yet being paid as one of the elites.

And you can try to deny that he's been less reliable, but he missed 2 huge routine kicks in 2 of our losses NYG/PITT. Both were very makeable and while it's not THE reason we lost, it could have had a major impact on those games. I can't recall many big misses by him other than early in his rookie season in a Jets game and 1 of those was blocked. Of course he wasn't PERFECT but aside from that the guy was rock solid especially in the playoffs. Hasn't been the case this year that's at least 2 misses that were huge.

Naugy Nugget · 12-30-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

Yet, instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt and take into consideration that he's still regaining leg strength, you chose to crap on him.

OK, now we know that in your world, pointing out that we don't really know if he's healed or not and calling him average this season is crapping on him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

So, yes, you have issues with people who voice their opinions about your opinions and them thinking that your comments are silly. And if your self-confidence is so poor that you think that a comment being called silly is a put down, then i suggest you seek out some psychiatric help.

OK, in your world, silly is not a put-down, and newbies that challenge your opinons lack self confidence and need psychiatric help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

I'm not acting as if people are hating on Gost.. They are doing so.

Hating is pointing out some plays that frustrate us and calling someone average?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

We know what you said and you clearly ignored a mitigating circumstance because of your own admitted ignorance on the subject.

No, we know you claim some deep knowledge about Gost's health status that you can't possibly have, and label anyone who doesn't fall in line with your thinking a hater.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

You formed an "opinion" and ignored relevant facts.

Which is what you did when you cherry picked some facts in your thread starter and ignored others like his very average FG% this season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

When those facts are pointed out and you are grouped with the people who have also ignored those facts, you claim others are using histrionics.

I didn't resort to calling everyone who disagreed with me a "hater".

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

When said facts are pointed out, you essentially ignore them and stick to your "opinion".

As you are doing by ignoring is very average FG% this season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

Yet, you want to be taken seriously?

Nah, I don't rely on the opinions of others the way you seem to need to. Maybe it's you that needs that trip to the shrink?

***Deus Irae*** · 12-30-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naugy Nugget

Translation: I really don't know if he's healing or not.

Incorrect. The translation is that Gost is kicking fairly well and just one kick below normal, despite coming off of an injury that could have ended his career. The type of injury in question is one that doesn't heal like bone, where it's broken until it's not, but involves a gradual improvement over time even after 'recovery' has happened.

If he just goes 1-for-1 this week, he'll finish the season above his career percentage, which really shows just how silly this discussion is. You're talking "mediocre" about a player who's one successful kick away from bettering his top 6 active career percentage.

Naugy Nugget · 12-30-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Incorrect. The translation is that Gost is kicking fairly well and just one kick below normal, despite coming off of an injury that could have ended his career. The type of injury in question is one that doesn't heal like bone, where it's broken until it's not, but involves a gradual improvement over time even after 'recovery' has happened.

I hope you are correct on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

If he just goes 1-for-1 this week, he'll finish the season above his career percentage, which really shows just how silly this discussion is. You're talking "mediocre" about a player who's one successful kick away from bettering his top 6 active career percentage.

Which, this season, is right in the middle of the pack.