Welker: "Asante chose money over championships" - Page 5 - New England Patriots Forums

signbabybrady · 06-30-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

#4? Who is that? I don't remember a #4. Or are you talking about that guy who replaced Vanderchoke in Indy? If that's who you are talking about, well, he's dead to me and no, he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF.

I think Adam is a lock for the Hall of Fame.

And I for one chose not to care about his defecting and I only care abuot those clutch kicks he made for us. He was key to our 3 out of 4 and will always have a place in Patriot History.

I was like you and bitter for a few years but it just hit me that he did so much for this team and that he is a part of some of the most precious Patriot memories and nothing can erase those moments.

When I watch the Kick in the snow or the SB winning kicks I still get chills down my spine......So the fact that his greats moments still illicit that chill means he still has a place in my heart and that I would be fooling myself still holding a grudge.

GoWhalers · 06-30-2008, 01:44 PM

Ultimately this discussion comes down to the seldom-discussed "negatives" of winning championships.

If your team is composed of older veteran players, they're more likely to appreciate the rare opportunity to be able to compete for a championship (pro) but are not as athletically gifted and more likely to retire once they get one (con, see Strahan, Michael). A team is at risk of losing its veteran leadership after winning just one championship, but maybe that leadership is replaceable.

If your team is composed of younger players, the team gets athletic ability and possibly lower first-contract salaries (pro), but if the team is successful, the players are going to have less appreciation for Super Bowl discounts come contract extension time (con, see Samuels, Asante). How do you convince a CB entering the prime of his career with 2 SB rings to take (just) a 3 million discount over the life of his deal? He's not going to have the appreciation of how rare it is to get those rings, nor might he even care with two on his mantle. A team is at risk of losing it's athletic core 2-3 years after winning a championship -- is that core replaceable? Better draft well!

signbabybrady · 06-30-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWhalers

Ultimately this discussion comes down to the seldom-discussed "negatives" of winning championships.

If your team is composed of older veteran players, they're more likely to appreciate the rare opportunity to be able to compete for a championship (pro) but are not as athletically gifted and more likely to retire once they get one (con, see Strahan, Michael). A team is at risk of losing its veteran leadership after winning just one championship, but maybe that leadership is replaceable.

If your team is composed of younger players, the team gets athletic ability and possibly lower first-contract salaries (pro), but if the team is successful, the players are going to have less appreciation for Super Bowl discounts come contract extension time (con, see Samuels, Asante). How do you convince a CB entering the prime of his career with 2 SB rings to take (just) a 3 million discount over the life of his deal? He's not going to have the appreciation of how rare it is to get those rings, nor might he even care with two on his mantle. A team is at risk of losing it's athletic core 2-3 years after winning a championship -- is that core replaceable? Better draft well!

ahh the price of a champion. and those are reasons why we should appreciate what is going on here more. We have been able to sustain this success despite key guys retiring and moving on for more money.

PATRIOTSFANINPA · 06-30-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

#4? Who is that? I don't remember a #4. Or are you talking about that guy who replaced Vanderchoke in Indy? If that's who you are talking about, well, he's dead to me and no, he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF.

Being a homer is one thing,Saying something stupid like you did is another - Adam will surely be in the hall of fame - Its a guarantee

You know you had your head up Vinatieri's **** just like we all did when he kicked it through in 2001 and 2003 so please stop with this "I don't know who Adam is" crap - You may not like him anymore but what he did for this team when he was here was nothing short of amazing.

VJCPatriot · 06-30-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keegs

But he needs to keep his mouth shut on this. How many rings does Welker have?

Wait until you win a Super Bowl before saying that crap.

Why? It's the truth. What is Asante going to do to Welker?
It's not like Welker is boasting he's going to score 100 points on the Eagles defense or something like that.
He's talking about a choice another player on HIS team made to go for the money rather than go for the wins.
Welker spoke honestly and I bet a lot of Patriots fans agree with his sentiments on the issue.

DESERTPAT · 06-30-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstAndGoal

The Patriots were beat soundly in that game. The Giants deserved the win. I could say the same thing about missed open receivers and Brady, missed strips by Rodney, missed sacks by the entire D line, missed blocks by the o line, bad routes by the receivers at times, etc, etc, etc. The Giants came in and beat the Patriots and I'm satisfied that it was the Giants play and not some fluke play. If the Patriots were so much better, they should not have been in that position. Like Indy and the Steelers before them, they got hot at the right time.

Whether you think so or not, Asante has been on championship teams and Welker hasn't. Welker shouldn't be calling out a 2 time Super Bowl winner about dedication to winning one when he hasn't won a thing. It has nothing to do with how I feel about Welker. It's about BTDT and respecting those who have when you start talking about it.

That's the truth as I see it and to blame one play and excuse bad behavior isn't going to cut it IMHO

If the great Asante would have made a play ore two at the end of the game Welker would have his ring. You pay for performance when it counts the most, can you say Asante truly earned his big payday?

Palm Beach Pats Fan · 06-30-2008, 02:47 PM

Brady has said similar things in general without naming players by name,

like (paraphrasing here)

"It's not all about the money. It's about winning, and sometimes you give up some to stay part of a winning environment"

The problem was not that Welker said anything untrue, it was that Welker mentioned Asante by name. That made it uncool. If he would have added something like "those money decisions are tough since NFL careers are short, so I can't fault him for going for it, but I wish he hadn't."

Sivy · 06-30-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieC

I like Welkers confidence in his statement and I also like the fact that he feels strongly enough about his position on the team to talk about the Asante situation.

I think what Welker said what Factually correct and for that he's in the clear. There is no mistaking that fact that Asante chose money, and I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that - He needs to do what's right for his family and himself. I wish him luck, unless he lines up against the Patriots and in that case I hope he and his new team looses big.

yes, because making 9 million a year instead of 6 million is the only way is family is going to be able to eat...i dont normaly do this, but

FirstAndGoal · 06-30-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DESERTPAT

If the great Asante would have made a play ore two at the end of the game Welker would have his ring. You pay for performance when it counts the most, can you say Asante truly earned his big payday?

Did Brady earn his? He did throw an interception as his last pass over the last 3 years to end the season but I don't trash him for it. I've never been in the "pay Asante whatever he wants" camp but I sure know a scapegoat when I see one. Maybe the Patriots should have scored more than 14 points since they were averaging more than double that. Seventeen points scored on the defense would have won 18 other games that year. How about blaming BB for that 4th and whatever it was and going for it?

Why is it so tough to admit that the Giants were better that day and leave it at that?

TealSox · 06-30-2008, 03:30 PM

Keegs; I love Welker. He is definitely one of my favorite players now.
But he needs to keep his mouth shut on this. How many rings does Welker have?
Wait until you win a Super Bowl before saying that crap.

Agreed. Welker doesn't really know how the shoes feel after winning a couple championships. At the same time, Samuel hasn't been on a team that wasn't expected to compete for a title every year. Asante might have some regrets in the days between paychecks.

BrianPat; I think Welker could have dropped the last two words, but I also think he's saying he expects to wearing a ring or two as a Patriot. Also, after last year, he's earned the right to say what he wants, ring or no ring, he's was one of the reasons the Patriots had the year they did.

The comments by Welker are much more candid than what we generally hear from Patriot players and staff, but there is no doubt that most fans haven't thought the exact words that Wes let come out his mouth. IMO, I think Wes earned some serious respect last season and may be a leader in the lockroom a la Bruschi, Harrison, et al. As a leader, he might want to keep his mouth shut on issues; no matter how bad they sting your chances of winning in 2009.

Signbabybrady; IMO the only people who shuold be mad about the comment are those who play for and those who follow the Eagles. Because what the comments says is you don't have a chance to win a ring there.

And if an Eagle fan were to mouth off about the situation, I would tell them to look at where the Pats have been over the last 6-7 years and compare it to where the Eagles have been. No doubt the Eagles have been a competitive team, but they weren't 18-1 last season. Instead, they were probably trying to figure out what to do with McNabb and Kolb. If it were the Cowboys, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

PatriotsfaninPA; I also think the Eagles have as good a shot as any team in the NFC to get to the Super Bowl and have enough talent to win it all in 2008 (If McNabb can handle the pressure)

Tough division for the Eagles. Every team in their division made the playoffs but them last year and the Cowboys look just as strong, if not stronger. Asante isn't even the missing link to winning a championship because they had talent at the corner position. Jared Allen to the Vikings was a bigger move and will lead to more wins for the Vikings than Asante in the secondary with Lito and Sheldon.

GoWhalers; If your team is composed of older veteran players, they're more likely to appreciate the rare opportunity to be able to compete for a championship (pro) but are not as athletically gifted and more likely to retire once they get one (con, see Strahan, Michael). A team is at risk of losing its veteran leadership after winning just one championship, but maybe that leadership is replaceable.

Solid post. Over the years, I think Pats players have thought winning championships was easy or maybe they just didn't care for it as much as the money. As Pats fans, we have seen guys like Ted Washington, Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law, Deion Branch, David Patten, A-Vin, David Givens, Daniel Graham, Damien Woody and a number of coaches leave this team because of their talent out the team's success.

At the same time, the Pats have gotten very talented veterans like Seau, Dillon, Moss, Harrison, and have been able to manipulate the draft by trading first round picks to move up the board in following years.

Don't blame him for taking the money, but I would feel better if (1) he was still on the Pats (dropped INT or not) and (2) if the NFL was less a business and more a sport where championships held better value long term.