Disco Volante

Ever.

No matter how many stats, direct quotes or relevant information you provide to them, they will simply ignore it. If Jimmy Johnson admitting to the same exact practice with virtually no reaction from fans or media didn’t clarify that for you already, I don’t know what will.

It’s not worth the effort trying to convince someone who’s opinion should have no value to you.

I really gave up caring if say, random Colts fan #53535 believes what we did was an unprecedented horrible act of cheating. I didn't value random Colts fan #53535's opinion before CamreaGate, nor do I a value it now.

Why should you or I value the opinion/views of a completely ignorant person? It’s still like arguing to a brick wall. ESPN nor the media will ever cover this story objectively nor will fans of opposing teams ever analyze objectively either.

Basically, I wouldn’t go out of your way to try and educate stubborn fools. Do you honestly think a Jets fan is eventually going to come to terms and admit “Oh hey, you’re right.” Never.

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Gunnails

As a Jet fan I was very upset when Spy Gate broke back in September. I felt the beat down the Jets got at the hands of the Pats in that game was somehow due to shenanigans on the Pats.

Well after I learned more about what actually happened, I came to realize that the Jets lost because the Pats were a very good football team and the Jets were a poor football team. End of story

Knowledge is a wonderful thing sometimes.

I am not saying the Pats did no wrong, or that the fines were not warranted, just saying that cheating is not why the Pats are such a dominate franchise.

Crazy Patriot Guy

It's always nice to have an opposing fan say something like that.

I agree, the Pats did break a rule and they deserved to be penalized for it. Most Patriots fans freely admit that. We've just gotten so tired of seeing the media act like the Patriots introduced cheating into a squeaky clean sport.

The double-standard is outrageous. In 2006, the Dolphins admit to having a video of Brady's audibles after a 21-0 win. The response: "That's just football." Now that the Patriots did essentially the same thing, only their way had a rule against it, the media is doing research to find out if Belichick is in fact Satan.

Again, thanks. From what I've seen, I think slowly more and more fans are starting to turn.

slash83

I can give a rats ass to what people think bout the Pats.

YorkHarbor

Well said, and all the true football fans I talk to feel the same way.

Gunnails

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The truth shall overcome!

I can emphasize with Pat fans to this extent, I like Mangini, Pat fans hate Mangini (at least most, and I think they do so unfairly), and it bothers me that Mangini is labeled as a rat.

As a Jet fan my biggest interest in this whole matter is Mangini and his relationship with Belichick. I find that very intriguing. Is Mangini a cold calculating football genius bastard like BB, or is he a wannabe, backstabbing, rat, pretender.

Crazy Patriot Guy

The jury is out on Mangini. We'll have a good idea of how good he is this season. The way you described Belichick, there in lies a lot of the problem I think. If this incident involved Tony Dungy or another well liked coach, I truly don't think it'd be as big a deal.

Sivy

Oh hey, you’re right

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"The people who are claiming that the Pats are dead are the same ones who would go up and check if Jason Voorhees is "really" dead by leaning over his body." -Someone at jetnation.

Jackson 2

100% correct. Well said.

HSanders

Well I don't think that cameragate was what made their relationship icy, but obviously it didn't help. I am fairly sure we will never know the full story on what happened to wreck their relationship, but I've read of Mangini's recruiting coaches from the Pats staff on the flight back from losing the Denver playoff game and his filching of a company laptop with Pats stuff on it which may have resulted in his being locked out of the Pats' facilities. Not sure what if any of that is true, but if it is, that is likely enough to kill that relationship for awhile in and of itself. If he was the driving force behind the cameragate thing then I do think they will likely never be that friendly again. Coaches who violate the coaches loyalty thing aren't well regarded by peers from what I understand.
I believe he wasn't experienced enough to be a HC especially a first time one somewhere as high profile as NY. Then again, I think HCs should rise through the ranks and be coordinators for a few years at least before they become HCs. I don't know how much of what I have heard about Jets' players recent media forays of discontent are related to him alone or to the FO in general though.