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Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning
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Originally Posted by Fball
Not really apologizing for anyone - just saying how wins/losses can be a misleading stat.
Every stat can be misleading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fball
Everyone heaps praise on BB for the way he builds contenders, amassing draft picks & getting amazing trades for excellent talent, as well as for the way he prepares his teams & coaches them in the playoffs. And that praise is well-deserved; he will surely go down as one of the best coaches in history.
Everyone heaps praise on Polian for the way he builds contenders, gets successful coaches like Dungy (successful in multiple cities), builds offenses around top round picks and racks up great win totals. And that praise is well deserved, as he's done it at multiple locations.
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Originally Posted by Fball
But, when it comes to the Brady/Manning comparison, it sounds more like Brady willed those teams to wins on his own.
But when it comes to the Brady/Manning comparison, it sounds more like Manning willed those teams to wins on his own.
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Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fball
Manning has always been asked to do more, though. He's practically the OC on that team. And it's pretty much universally agreed upon that the Colts are sub-.500 without him, while the Pats went 11-5 without Brady.
BB is a genius; it's hard for me to imagine that he wouldn't have had a few titles by now, with or without Brady.
Cassel argument is retarded
NE won 5 less games after going from a schedule facing the NFCE and AFCN to facing the AFCW and NFCW.
You are going to tell me that you think Cassel would have gone 11-5 during the 2007 season's schedule? 8-8, maybe 7-9 if he had to play the games Brady did. NE also missed the playoffs a year after playing in the Super Bowl.
I don't understand how 11-5 is considered good, considering the team won 16 games a year prior and faced two of the weakest divisions in the NFL.
Edit: I look like a broken record but i didn't bother reading the thread after seeing this post.
Last edited by strngplyr; 08-25-2011 at 02:17 PM..
Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fball
Manning has always been asked to do more, though. He's practically the OC on that team. And it's pretty much universally agreed upon that the Colts are sub-.500 without him, while the Pats went 11-5 without Brady.
BB is a genius; it's hard for me to imagine that he wouldn't have had a few titles by now, with or without Brady.
This is a myth. First, Brady is also called upon to change the calls if he thinks it's needed, the same as Manning and a lot of other veteran QBs. Second, the Patriots run a much more sophisticated offense than the Colts do. The Colts system is based upon simple route trees and timing patterns. The Patriots system is based upon complex patterns and both pre and post snap adjustments by both the QB and the receivers.
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"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
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Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning
Quote:
Originally Posted by strngplyr
Cassel argument is retarded
NE won 5 less games after going from a schedule facing the NFCE and AFCN to facing the AFCW and NFCW.
You are going to tell me that you think Cassel would have gone 11-5 during the 2007 season's schedule? 8-8, maybe 7-9 if he had to play the games Brady did. NE also missed the playoffs a year after playing in the Super Bowl.
I don't understand how 11-5 is considered good, considering the team won 16 games a year prior and faced two of the weakest divisions in the NFL.
Edit: I look like a broken record but i didn't bother reading the thread after seeing this post.
Not to mention that Cassel has since proven to be a highly capable quarterback in his own right (27 TD, 7 INT, 3116 yards and a 93.0 rating last year in KC). If the Colts had bothered to groom a backup quarterback at any point over the past 5 years, they might be able to weather the loss of Manning in similar fashion.
Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning
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Originally Posted by Nikolai
Close the gap? Please. Their age difference really isn't all that great, so Brady's extra seasons will be played as an older man rather than the younger man Peyton was when he played his extra seasons. Besides, Brady could throw 40 TDs to 5 INTs for the next five seasons and you'd still say Manning is better. You call all of us homers, but it's pretty clear that you're a hater.
I don't think Manning is better. Try reading the thread.
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Originally Posted by Nikolai
You already tried with the volume stats and got shot down.
Got shot down by people who have an invested interest in volume stats not making a difference.
Kinda like being shot down that 'pro-choice' is right by a bunch of 'pro-lifers'.
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Originally Posted by Nikolai
Please post one of them (or more than one) and I'm sure it would give us something to discuss. You've yet to post any stats so far, so this would be a great starting point for conversation, rather than us presenting facts and stats only to have you call us "homers" while offering no real argument in return.
I think the real problem here is that you bought into the stereotype that Pats fans are dumb or whatever you guys think out there in Indy. You came in here unprepared to make a fact-based argument, and got justifiably blown out of the water.
These aren't my opinions. They are the opinions of the football watching public and media. My opinion is that I'd rather have Brady, but I'd be a moron to think that the general populace thinks the same way as me when the evidence is contrary.
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These aren't my opinions. They are the opinions of the football watching public and media. My opinion is that I'd rather have Brady, but I'd be a moron to think that the general populace thinks the same way as me when the evidence is contrary.
Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning
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Originally Posted by bagwell368
High level? Not to nit pick, but 1998 his rookie year wasn't any great shakes, he wasn't in the top 10 in QB Rating, probably not the top 20. Brady has been in the top 10 every year he's played when he had more then 11 attempts.
Wasn't he ORoY? NFL Rookie Records for attemtps, completions, yds, TDs (and INTs). Pretty good for a rookie QB on a crap team.
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Originally Posted by bagwell368
BTW, have you dealt with the argument that Manning has been paid far more then Brady for less tangible accomplishment?
How is this relevant? $/TD? Seriously? I'm sure that will be engraved on Brady's HoF bust.
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Originally Posted by bagwell368
We don't know when Manning's decline will get steep, but recent evidence, ages, and number of years played (pro and college and wear and tear associated with that), and current team quality (much harder to bear for Manning it seems) all seem to show a better performance on tap for Brady v Manning is in store. Time will tell.
Yup.
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Originally Posted by bagwell368
Cherry pick what? I asked you to choose the manner in which you want to compare Manning and Brady to do away will this specious counting stat argument you are making. Do try and read what you are responding too, it doesn't make you look very informed when you do not.
What stats, what people, point them out. Have you read the SI piece that was listed here also? If so, would you please discuss each and every point that you do not agree with - in detail. Let's roll up those sleeves.
The national accolades are plenty to prove my point, which is just that there's not a clear cut argument for one of the other. Saying Brady is 'obviously better' than Manning, or vice versa, is ridiculous.
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Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning
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