Joker

But...but...history DOES remember!!!!....tell me one person who does NOT remember THIS....



or THIS.....



or THESE....

Nikolai

Does history remember Super Bowls? Who won more of those?

Who threw a game-sealing pick-six to torpedo his team's chances?

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We get what we deserve.

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“On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson..they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.”

randomk1

12 pages of this thread? What is there to discuss? It's pretty obvious that Mannings numbers are helped out alot by that dome of his.

No wonder Manning throws so many interceptions...those windy domes are ******* tricky on the accuracy.

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Three out of Four. Back-to-back.

PatsFan DK

I think this article says it all..

Stats say what rings suggested: Brady is better than Manning:
Kerry J. Byrne: Numbers declare a winner in Brady vs. - 12.21.10 - SI Vault

ctpatsfan77

That actually depends on how you're making the comparison.

If you look at both of them after the same number of starts (e.g., after 10 starts, after 20 starts, 30 starts, etc.), Brady has a better QB rating at nearly every point along the way, and that generally playing with a worse receiver corps than Manning had (at least through his first six seasons as a starter).

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"Momentum was quickly snatched away by New England, who once again proved that any Patriot, at any moment, can make a play." —Inside the NFL, Packers v. Patriots

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Fixit

It means he plays in a dome.

Also, he has a much higher completion % to his opponents, as well.

bagwell368

According to Approximate value, Manning was the 11th most valuable player in the league in 2009, and the 3rd QB after Rivers and Rodgers. A look at how they did makes it clear that Manning was not the best choice in 2009 for MVP. Manning did finally show some leadership, but I'm not sure he should have won this one.

In 2008, he wasn't even in the top 13 players, or top 2 QB's. His MVP here is a lifetime achievement award.

In 2006 Tomlinson easily outplayed Manning, who was the 2nd best player in the NFL.

In 2005 Manning was the number #1 QB, but behind 5 other players including E. James from his own team.

In 2004, Manning and James tied at the top of the league. I can see a co-MVP award as the best choice, but his MVP here is reasonable.

In 2003, Manning was the 7th best player in the NFL. His MVP was a reach IMO.

Before that (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002), he wasn't a factor. In 2007, 2008 and 2010 he wasn't a factor either. So this means:

Manning as a factor as top player in the league in: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009 - that pretty much syncs up with my post that says Manning has been in decline. Even if one wants to claim 2004 was a one year unrepeatable peak (Brady has two of those type years, the only QB in league history with two BTW), and that 2005 and 2006 are not decline years, that still gives us 2007, 2008, 2010 - 3 of the last 4 years on a downslope, and in real decline. Manning is done with 100.0+ QB Rating years, and might be done with anything over 92.5 as well. We'll see.

I can see Manning with two MVP's, but the rest of them are based on subjective perception and not fact - and the amateurish mind set that more TD's and Yards make for the best QB - side stepping other concerns such as Manning's propensity to make too many turnovers. Of course those regular season awards do not take into account Manning's whining hysterics in the playoffs - so beautifully seen in January 2004 and 2005 in Foxboro.

Meanwhile MVP of the regular season is not MVP of the playoffs. We see how that's gone so far. I cannot see Manning winning anymore MVP's, but I can see Brady winning more (1-3 including playoffs). If/when that happens, even with Manning's inflated MVP count, Brady will have the lead since playoff MVP's are by definition more important then regular season ones. Also one of Manning's MVP is shared, and so far none of Brady's is - including his unanimous one in 2010.

Sivy

Has manning ever thrown 50 td a game? No..has manning ever went 16-0? No. Has manning thrown 10,000000 passes without a pick? No.

I know I'm a pats fan, and yea I am bias but it is a FACT that Brady is better than Manning and only die hard pats haters think otherwise.

People are just mad because Manning was suppose to be great (which he is) but brady was suppose to be nothing, but that nothing came up and became the best in the world.

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"The people who are claiming that the Pats are dead are the same ones who would go up and check if Jason Voorhees is "really" dead by leaning over his body." -Someone at jetnation.

bagwell368

Because the piped in crowd noise rattles their brains.... and they cannot think straight.

This year the Colts have to win less then 9.5 games, I have a mega 3 year long bet with an uber Colts fan hanging in the balance. Looks good to me at this point. Bwhaa ha hahha.

JJDChE

History does remember volume stats. I never said that was the only thing it remembers. It's a spectrum. It's a gray area. Just like the Manning/Brady debate.

Someone mentioned Gale Sayers earlier. He's a great example. He's always talked about among the best ever, but he's also always ultimately discounted because of his short career. How many lists include him in the top 3 or 5 all-time? Yet, there's a strong contingent who say he's the best who's ever played. When you even out everything, longevity is a deciding when great players are talked about.


Oh, and he's absolutely right about the stats. He (and many others) are just wrong in the amount of weight they put on 'weather'. It's an argument that's being built up by Pat's homers for years and at this point the 'weather' contingent is so convinced that it's the smoking gun, it's a waste of time arguing it. It's a great example of groupthink.

NFL fans at large recognize there is a difference in playing conditions between the two, but they put a more reasonable value on it. It's just one among many factors comparing the two players.

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