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This is what I see... With the new rule concerning kick offs, just how important is a kr now? How many times are w going to see the ball kicked or of the endzone? Unless tate can start showing more improvement in his wr skills he's battling slater for a spot on this team.
Butler the other hand... he was drafted 41st overall. When you draft a guy there you're not looking for a solid 4,5, or 6 guy at that position. He was highly touted coming out and had high expectations. He showed promise in his rookie season and seems to have regressed a bit or at least not shown any improvement. BB benched him last year due at last in part if not completely based off of his poor play. For a reminder about how he was looked at when he was drafted read this: Darius Butler, Connecticut, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com
I its really a wonder why fans are expecting more from butler?
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Last edited by 37Harrison; 08-13-2011 at 09:06 AM..
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I think both Edelman, Price, Tate, Slater, Morris and Brace and a whole bunch of D lineman - essentially anyone fighting for back-up spots at deep positions is on the bubble.
In the case of Tate, I think you might be a little biased.
For example, "Tate was a top KR, Edelman an average PR." Tate was 6th in the NFL in KR avg and tied for 3rd in KR TDs with 2. Edelman was 2nd in PR avg and tied for 3rd in PR TDs with 1.
Neither guy has been a picture of durability. Both have had some brief moments of production at WR - Edelman as a rookie, Tate in couple early games last year. Both were nothing more than afterthoughts at WR at the end of last year. Then BB upgraded the WR spot by acquiring Chad. There is the open question of how valuable kick returns are with the new rules - I have no doubt BB has already decided that question in his own mind.
Edelman and Tate seem like 2 bubble players to me.
Edelman had 321 punt return yards on 21 returns (15.3 YPR), but 94 of those yards were from one return for TD. You take away that one return and his punt return average drops to 11.35 Yards per return which is pretty average. I watched the games and he had some flashes of great returns, but overall he was average. If Price shows in the preseason he can be the punt returner, Edelman becomes expendable in this area.
As for being biased, I am not. I personally don't care about Tate other than I root for all the Pats' draft picks to pan out and loved Edelman's potential after his rookie season. I just think people are jumping to too many conclusions after one preseason game where most of the starters on both teams didn't play. It is the Bam Childress affect.
I think Tate's spot is pretty safe. He will probably be given one more year to prove himself especially since most of his problems last year were mental over phyiscal and has has the physical skills to be a good starter if he can hold onto the ball. As for Tate being an afterthought at the end of the year, you do realize he had 2 catches for 82 yards and TD in week 17? Tate was not the picture of consistency and definitely needs to improve from his first year as a player, but again last year was his first year really playing and his play was not nearly as bad as people made it out to be.
Tate is a guy that people had huge expectations on and failed to deliver right away and now people want to dump on the guy. He has shown flashes of brilliance last year as well as a lack of concentration.
Butler is a solid #4-5 CB considering his time in the system.
Tate on the other hand probably has his work cut out for him to make the team.
If the Pats arent going to shop around for another CB then Butler is better than whats behind him on the depth chart.
Beyond Mcourty, Bodden and Arrington, they would be in trouble if someone is out for an extended time IMO. Then youre again relying on players who dont have a good track record hoping they will get it.
Only 2 other ball clubs had a worse receiving defense than the Pats last season. NFL Stats: by Team Category
[QUOTE=Rob0729;2629630]Edelman had 321 punt return yards on 21 returns (15.3 YPR), but 94 of those yards were from one return for TD. You take away that one return and his punt return average drops to 11.35 Yards per return which is pretty average. I watched the games and he had some flashes of great returns, but overall he was average. If Price shows in the preseason he can be the punt returner, Edelman becomes expendable in this area.
He also had several long punt returns that were negated by penalties, some phantom. He's a threat to go the distance on just about every return.
Just posted something similar in another thread...
How do things look if this is a battle of Malcolm Williams and Tate vs. Butler and Slater.
Looking at it that way, you can keep Tate, price, and Edelman, and replace slaters ST contributions with ST contributions from the 5th CB spot by replacing butler with williams.
Edelman had 321 punt return yards on 21 returns (15.3 YPR), but 94 of those yards were from one return for TD. You take away that one return and his punt return average drops to 11.35 Yards per return which is pretty average. I watched the games and he had some flashes of great returns, but overall he was average. If Price shows in the preseason he can be the punt returner, Edelman becomes expendable in this area.
As for being biased, I am not. I personally don't care about Tate other than I root for all the Pats' draft picks to pan out and loved Edelman's potential after his rookie season. I just think people are jumping to too many conclusions after one preseason game where most of the starters on both teams didn't play. It is the Bam Childress affect.
I think Tate's spot is pretty safe. He will probably be given one more year to prove himself especially since most of his problems last year were mental over phyiscal and has has the physical skills to be a good starter if he can hold onto the ball. As for Tate being an afterthought at the end of the year, you do realize he had 2 catches for 82 yards and TD in week 17? Tate was not the picture of consistency and definitely needs to improve from his first year as a player, but again last year was his first year really playing and his play was not nearly as bad as people made it out to be.
Tate is a guy that people had huge expectations on and failed to deliver right away and now people want to dump on the guy. He has shown flashes of brilliance last year as well as a lack of concentration.
I'm interested to read when people had huge expectations on Tate? I've never observed that, more the optimistic hope that he'll amount to something more than lucky to keep his roster sport or eternally injured.
Edelman had 321 punt return yards on 21 returns (15.3 YPR), but 94 of those yards were from one return for TD. You take away that one return and his punt return average drops to 11.35 Yards per return which is pretty average. I watched the games and he had some flashes of great returns, but overall he was average. If Price shows in the preseason he can be the punt returner, Edelman becomes expendable in this area.
As for being biased, I am not. I personally don't care about Tate other than I root for all the Pats' draft picks to pan out and loved Edelman's potential after his rookie season. I just think people are jumping to too many conclusions after one preseason game where most of the starters on both teams didn't play. It is the Bam Childress affect.
I think Tate's spot is pretty safe. He will probably be given one more year to prove himself especially since most of his problems last year were mental over phyiscal and has has the physical skills to be a good starter if he can hold onto the ball. As for Tate being an afterthought at the end of the year, you do realize he had 2 catches for 82 yards and TD in week 17? Tate was not the picture of consistency and definitely needs to improve from his first year as a player, but again last year was his first year really playing and his play was not nearly as bad as people made it out to be.
Tate is a guy that people had huge expectations on and failed to deliver right away and now people want to dump on the guy. He has shown flashes of brilliance last year as well as a lack of concentration.
You are aware BB didn't play his starting WRs in week 17 last year? Price and Edelman also had very good pass catching numbers in Week 17. Tate had 9 catches the last 10 games including playoffs. He was an afterthought in the passing game.
You can also play with Tate's KR numbers the same as Edelman's PR numbers. His last 13 games were 28 returns 564 yds or 20 a return.
I think it makes little sense to give either player too much credit for his week 17 production or to discount their big plays in the return game when evealuating how they performed in 2010.
What posters say and who they bash is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is there are limited roster spots for any given position. Some players progress and earn a spot, others do not. Can anyone honestly say that Tate has done enough to beat out Price for a spot IF there is only one spot between them? BB may choose to keep both.
As for Butler, he has not performed up to expectations. But if you are talking about a dimeback, he or Wilhite will suffice. I am glad that Arrington has performed as well as he has. It gives the Pats someone to play nickel without putting those two stiffs out there.
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Re: In defense of Tate and Butler
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