chicowalker

As usual my queston related to rules interpretations for the NFL. I was surprised the Dolphins receiver today appeared to be given a spot for forward progress today -- forget the situation, but it was a play where the receiver was coming back towards the line of scrimmage on the catch, caught it at the first down line but went backwards after that.

I wouldn't think a player's momentum would be treated the same way as a defensive player hitting the receiver. In other words, if the player had been knocked backwards when catching hit, forward progress (and the spot) would make sense to me.

But I would think that the player's own momentum would be similar to an offensive player looping backwards with the ball -- forward progress doesn't apply.

Not sure if the NFL's rules specifically address forward progress on receptions like this, or if it's subjective?

mrscruff

What constitutes holding on a defensive lineman by the O-line?

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CelticPatriot

Right this is an extremely stupid question.

But see when the Wide Receiver (I think that's the name) is running and the defender touches him/blocks him while the ball is coming towards them is that pass interference?

And is a defender allowed to push/tug/grab the Receiver when the ball is being thrown or is that a foul

So Aye, I know nothing about Football lol

neuronet

Two cases. One before the ball is thrown:
The defender can contact (jam) the receiver within five yards of the line of scrimmage, as long as the WR is in front of him (if the WR has blown past him, even within five yards, it is illegal contact).

Beyond five yards, if the defender touches the WR in any way that impedes the free movement of the receiver, it is illegal contact.

You can also have offensive pass interference if the WR interferes with the movements of people covering him (ball doesn't need to be in the air for offensive pass interference--this rarely ever happens in practice until the ball is in the air but just to be thorough I mention it, and I would ignore it if it is confusing, as it is to me too a little bit).

Case 2: after the ball is thrown, then you can get defensive pass interference (and still offensive pass interference), which is when the movement of any legal receiver is impeded by the defender (or offense).

Source: page 6ff of:
http://static.nfl.com/static/content...ass_Fumble.pdf

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jmt57

That's one of those that could literally be called either way, on offense or defense on just about any play. Who knows, perhaps the NFL does not want too much scrutiny and that's part of why they don't want the coach's tape (the all-22 from above, along with end zone shots shot directly at the line) to become public. The number of 'why did you call this penalty but not that one' question would be a mile long.

The NFL has definitely become more relaxed over the years in regards to this rule. For example if you look at pictures of football cards from the 60's or earlier you will see offensive linemen in a blocking position where their elbows are out, and their hands are together in the middle of their body chest high. Why? Because back then any time they got their hands extended wide they'd be flagged for holding; imagine that now! There is no way teams could pass the ball as often as they do today if linemen were still 'held' to such stringent standards.

Loc

Regarding tight ends, I often hear announcers say "he can also block!"

Isn't this assumed? Are there tight ends that cannot adequately block? Isn't this a requirement? If not, aren't you just a big slot receiver?

jmt57

For a while now tight ends have fallen into two categories: guys who were good at blocking but not known for their pass-catching abilities, and guys who were good receivers but just average blockers. Many rosters would have a 'receiving tight end' and a 'blocking tight end', which fed the distinction - think back to Ben Watson and Daniel Graham, for example. Dallas Clark and Antonio Gates are examples of tight ends much more well known for their receiving than their blocking; it doesn't mean that they can't block, it's just that they catch the ball better than they block.

I think the announcers are over-emphasizing that trait and stereotype tight ends into one category or the other - after all, wide receivers are expected to be able to block too - but in their defense being able to block an offensive lineman is more difficult than blocking a linebacker or safety.

silenthuntr7

As an addendum to jmt57's point:

Everyone on the offense is expected to block. However, the TE is often expected to block on the line, and as such his assignment is often to block a DE/OLB. DE/OLBs normally weigh anywhere between 240-300lbs, and their primary job is vs. the run.

Compare that to the normal WR, who's expected on a outside running play to (usually) block a S or CB. The secondary usually weighs anywhere between 180-220lbs, and their primary job is to guard the pass, not the run.

TEs like Gronk and Witten are big/strong enough to block the first group most of the time, hence why they are often described as 'great' blockers. On the other hand, Hernandez and Dallas Clark are usually not expected to 'in-line' block a DE/OLB, because they just aren't big/strong enough to do so.

Your last point raises a good debate around the NFL right now...the classification of guys like Hernandez and Clark. They really fit better in a WR role than a TE role, and are usually lined up off the line, like a WR. So why are they called TEs?

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jmt57

This article is technically about the Patriots defense, but it gives great explanations about the 3-4 versus 4-3, one-gap and two-gap, and much more. It's complete with diagrams and is written in a manner that is neither too technical for novices, nor too simplistic for those that have basic knowledge. There are plenty of links to other articles in the column, and it also takes the initial explanations and expands on it like a building block to more sophisticated defensive formations and concepts.

Bill Belichick, Vince Wilfork, and the New England Patriots defense - Grantland

The site itself, Grantland, is relatively new but is filled with several very talented writers, including Chris Brown, who wrote this piece.

BradyBranch39

TebowAsPersonalProtector gave me this idea. Would it be legal?

Long-snapper snaps ball to Tebow. Everyone goes for the fake like they should.
Tebow turns around and throws the ball to the punter.
Punter punts ball with nobody in his face and the return team not ready to set up a return. Essentially a quick kick but with a guy who can really punt.

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