Week 13 Thoughts: Phew! - New England Patriots Forums

Oswlek · 12-04-2007, 10:27 AM

Not since the SD playoff game last year have I been so wiped out after just watching a freaking game. Add in an offensive player getting a strip, a defense that looked like is was a play away from breaking down stepping up late and a late comeback and there are some similarities there.

Here are my weekly semi-lucid thoughts:

* I am surprised by the amount of controversy that there appears to be with the officiating. I don't quite understand why the refs correctly calling the final few minutes is considered biased against Baltimore. Shouldn't all the holding that they got away with mean that the refs favored them?

I am confused.

* Most saw the near tackle of Samuel by Mason, but it seems that not too many noticed that Mason grabbed Gay when he was setting his position (like a rebounder) and literally threw him from the two yard line to 3 yards deep into the EZ. Then he went and grabbed Samuel. Without those plays, there is no way that the pass isn't batted down.

* I am also surprised by the negative tone surrounding Maroney's game - running in particular. Maroney had one play where I felt that he ran poorly; the stuff on 3rd and 1. And on that play it looked to me like he ran up into Mankins expecting the big guy to get a push that never came. I do think that he could have done more with that play, but his running was MUCH better than people give him credit for. He just ran against a very good run defense. Of course couple that with clearly his best blocking and receiving and I walked away from that game thinking that he played extremely well.

* If you want to point to someone who had a bad game, look at Hobbs. He just waited for McGahee on the long TD run and gave a marginal effort to stop him. He was beaten on the subsequent TD as well, although in fairness to him he did slip. But I did see several other times where he could have been more of a factor in run support, but he seemed to decide not to.

* I thought that Watson almost single-handedly kept Baltimore tied in the first half. His dropped TD was an easy catch and he had another play where he absolutely should have gotten a first down but he let himself get stopped by one guy with a 1/2 yard to go. Add another drop and you have a recipe for a very bad half. He did have a big catch late, though.

* Can someone explain to me why NE took so long to adjust from a passive, vanilla type defense to an agressive, attacking style with tons of penetration? Why didn't they do anything possible to force Boller to throw the ball? I was very surprised by this. Obviously some of this is great blocking and intense running by McGahee, but it was no surprise that they couldn't do much once NE got guys in the backfield.

* I found it humorous just how much they kept pointing out Boller's great numbers without pointing out that most of his yardage (at that time) came on a complete fluke play.

* Faulk had a terrific game. He ran very well up the middle (he just seems to squirt through any little hole like a damn mouse) and he had some key catches. The only two negatives were a drop and I thought he could have gotten the first down just prior to the notorious 4th and 1. It seemed that he ran OOB when there was room to push forward.

* I am starting to get worried about the dropped balls. Watson had a couple, Moss should have caught the TD. Faulk dropped a sure 10 yard gain. Stallworth allowed a ball to get into his chest that he subsequently dropped when hit. You can't have that when passing is your identity. Hell, you can't have that period.

* Same criticism, different week. While NE gets a decent push on the pass rush, they seem to get there just a half-second too late all the time. This week, that was joined by a secondary that was just a half second late trying to tip passes.

* I wonder how much this game was affect by Sean Taylor's death. It just seemed to me that the Ravens - with their three most prominant players very close to him - played inspired because of it. Obviously NE has Wilfork and Meriweather who were there as well, but I don't think that the Taylor thing was just an ESPN storyline.

* Was it me or was Welker held on Brady's int? Or, said differently: Was it me, or was Wes Welker held on nearly every route he ran all night? I hate to sound like a Colt fan circa 2003, but whatever. Just don't shove this bias crap down my throat when the calls finally came. You played with fire and ultimately you got burned.

* On the second of the two consecutive sacks of Brady in the second half, it seemed to me that Light had trouble getting out of his stance. Either that or he expect a bull rush, because he was still set when the defender was passing him despite it not being Freeney-esque. It found it humorous that the guy got the sack despite Light getting away with a blatant uncalled hold.

* On Gafney's TD, I have heard many try to make it sound much more controversial than it really was. Lest we forget, the ref said, "The review confirmed the call on the field". He did not say, "there is not indisputable evidence" or something like that. It was a catch. The movement of the ball was Gafney just slipping it under his arm like every WR is taught to do from birth.

Clearly NE is in the middle of a downswing. Time will tell if these two teams have keyed in on something that NE legitmately has issues with, or whether it is just a standard lull that every team has. As always, I welcome your thoughts.

kas · 12-04-2007, 10:36 AM

Nice post.

-About the drops, I think the wind had a lot to do with it. It was swirling pretty badly and probably was playing tricks with the ball in mid-flight. I hope that's the case at least.

-I thought Samuel had a worse game than Hobbs. He seemed a bit slow to react all game and gave up a few too many receptions. I do agree that Hobbs was a bit tentative though. We need these two guys at the top of their games as the other top teams have excellent passing games.

-As for McGahee, he's done very well against us recently. His style (speed and quick feet, but powerful when he gets going) seems to routinely give us fits. Hopefully this is just a one time thing, or else get ready for some shootouts.

SVN · 12-04-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oswlek

Not since the SD playoff game last year have I been so wiped out after just watching a freaking game. Add in an offensive player getting a strip, a defense that looked like is was a play away from breaking down stepping up late and a late comeback and there are some similarities there.

Here are my weekly semi-lucid thoughts:

* I am surprised by the amount of controversy that there appears to be with the officiating. I don't quite understand why the refs correctly calling the final few minutes is considered biased against Baltimore. Shouldn't all the holding that they got away with mean that the refs favored them?

I am confused.

* Most saw the near tackle of Samuel by Mason, but it seems that not too many noticed that Mason grabbed Gay when he was setting his position (like a rebounder) and literally threw him from the two yard line to 3 yards deep into the EZ. Then he went and grabbed Samuel. Without those plays, there is no way that the pass isn't batted down.

* I am also surprised by the negative tone surrounding Maroney's game - running in particular. Maroney had one play where I felt that he ran poorly; the stuff on 3rd and 1. And on that play it looked to me like he ran up into Mankins expecting the big guy to get a push that never came. I do think that he could have done more with that play, but his running was MUCH better than people give him credit for. He just ran against a very good run defense. Of course couple that with clearly his best blocking and receiving and I walked away from that game thinking that he played extremely well.

* If you want to point to someone who had a bad game, look at Hobbs. He just waited for McGahee on the long TD run and gave a marginal effort to stop him. He was beaten on the subsequent TD as well, although in fairness to him he did slip. But I did see several other times where he could have been more of a factor in run support, but he seemed to decide not to.

* I thought that Watson almost single-handedly kept Baltimore tied in the first half. His dropped TD was an easy catch and he had another play where he absolutely should have gotten a first down but he let himself get stopped by one guy with a 1/2 yard to go. Add another drop and you have a recipe for a very bad half. He did have a big catch late, though.

* Faulk had a terrific game. He ran very well up the middle (he just seems to squirt through any little hole like a damn mouse) and he had some key catches. The only two negatives were a drop and I thought he could have gotten the first down just prior to the notorious 4th and 1. It seemed that he ran OOB when there was room to push forward.

* I am starting to get worried about the dropped balls. Watson had a couple, Moss should have caught the TD. Faulk dropped a sure 10 yard gain. Stallworth allowed a ball to get into his chest that he subsequently dropped when hit. You can't have that when passing is your identity. Hell, you can't have that period.

* Same criticism, different week. While NE gets a decent push on the pass rush, they seem to get there just a half-second too late all the time. This week, that was joined by a secondary that was just a half second late trying to tip passes.

* I wonder how much this game was affect by Sean Taylor's death. It just seemed to me that the Ravens - with their three most prominant players very close to him - played inspired because of it. Obviously NE has Wilfork and Meriweather who were there as well, but I don't think that the Taylor thing was just an ESPN storyline.

* Was it me or was Welker held on Brady's int? Or, said differently: Was it me, or was Wes Welker held on nearly every route he ran all night? I hate to sound like a Colt fan circa 2003, but whatever. Just don't shove this bias crap down my throat when the calls finally came. You played with fire and ultimately you got burned.

* On the second of the two consecutive sacks of Brady in the second half, it seemed to me that Light had trouble getting out of his stance. Either that or he expect a bull rush, because he was still set when the defender was passing him despite it not being Freeney-esque. It found it humorous that the guy got the sack despite Light getting away with a blatant uncalled hold.

* On Gafney's TD, I have heard many try to make it sound much more controversial than it really was. Lest we forget, the ref said, "The review confirmed the call on the field". He did not say, "there is not indisputable evidence" or something like that. It was a catch. The movement of the ball was Gafney just slipping it under his arm like every WR is taught to do from birth.

Clearly NE is in the middle of a downswing. Time will tell if these two teams have keyed in on something that NE legitmately has issues with, or whether it is just a standard lull that every team has. As always, I welcome your thoughts.

they showed the INT on espn primetime with welker being clearly held. they were demonstrating how ravens made a concentrated effort to hit and double welker and in that clip they they clearly showed welker was held in the back during that INT

ClevTrev · 12-04-2007, 10:50 AM

Good post and points. Agree with you about the vanilla defense. It appeared they were on their back foot with calls through 3 quarters of the game. If they didn't become aggressive in the 4th quarter, the Pats would be 11-1 this morning.

Samuel and Hobbs looked out of place all night.

Welker got mugged all night. On Brady's interception, Welker had position, and the defender had Welker's left arm, preventing him from making the play.

Gafney's TD was not overturned due to lack of indisputable evidence to the contrary. It definitely was a play that required a review.

This is a downswing by the team with assistance from the opposition treating these games like it's life and death. The Ravens played great, but couldn't maintain their collective cool when it mattered most. Steve Young, in one of his more cogent post-game comments, mentioned that great teams go through downswings at some point in the second half of their seasons. The question is whether they can emerge with renewed energy and purpose. There's no better time than Sunday, as this is the time of year where Super Bowl foundations are set.

Oswlek · 12-04-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevTrev

Good post and points. Agree with you about the vanilla defense. It appeared they were on their back foot with calls through 3 quarters of the game. If they didn't become aggressive in the 4th quarter, the Pats would be 11-1 this morning.

Samuel and Hobbs looked out of place all night.

Welker got mugged all night. On Brady's interception, Welker had position, and the defender had Welker's left arm, preventing him from making the play.

Gafney's TD was not overturned due to lack of indisputable evidence to the contrary. It definitely was a play that required a review.

This is a downswing by the team with assistance from the opposition treating these games like it's life and death. The Ravens played great, but couldn't maintain their collective cool when it mattered most. Steve Young, in one of his more cogent post-game comments, mentioned that great teams go through downswings at some point in the second half of their seasons. The question is whether they can emerge with renewed energy and purpose. There's no better time than Sunday, as this is the time of year where Super Bowl foundations are set.

No, the ref stated specifically, "The review confirmed the call on the field" meaning there was indisputable evidence of a.........

catch.

***MoLewisrocks*** · 12-04-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kas

Nice post.

-About the drops, I think the wind had a lot to do with it. It was swirling pretty badly and probably was playing tricks with the ball in mid-flight. I hope that's the case at least.

-I thought Samuel had a worse game than Hobbs. He seemed a bit slow to react all game and gave up a few too many receptions. I do agree that Hobbs was a bit tentative though. We need these two guys at the top of their games as the other top teams have excellent passing games.

-As for McGahee, he's done very well against us recently. His style (speed and quick feet, but powerful when he gets going) seems to routinely give us fits. Hopefully this is just a one time thing, or else get ready for some shootouts.

I think conditions probably played a small role last night. What I really think is happening is the team is pressing on offense in the face of some nothing to lose pressure and uneven officiating. And like the D the O is probably a little tired given the schedule and the level of intensity the last couple of opponents have mustered.

Samuel is the golden child and Hobbs is the whipping boy... Last night was an Asante flashback to 2005. But people who watch with predetermined opinions allow those to color their view of each game.

McGahee wasn't really a factor except in the third quarter. He had 53 yards in the first half and they didn't really impact the Ravens scoring the way people make it out they did. Failure to get consistent pressure on Boller in time and failure of the secondary to cover well enough to counter that were bigger issues in their first half scoring drives which yielded all but 7 of their total points. We did shut them down in the last 14:30 too.

And considering how the offense was still sputtering and how many times they went 3 and out, that was a ballsy defense down the stretch who held Baltimore off until Tommy could get a play or two made against a defense that was not only playing intensely but getting away with holds and PI's bordering on mugging for most of the evening. I thought at the time that even Vrabel was contacted in the EZ a second before that ball arrived and they just let it go.

Metaphors · 12-04-2007, 11:50 AM

* I thought Asante had a poor game. The Ravens only have one credible receiver (Mason). He is 33, not big and not overly fast. If Asante wants Clements-type money, this is the game where he shuts out Mason. Asante is a skilled/smart player, but not an elite corner. To be fair, Champ hasn't looked elite this year and he was getting lonely in the "elite" club. I don't think you grade "elite" on a curve. This is why I see Asante on another team next year.

* A lot of people are looking at this as a bad game. It really was a bad quarter. The Pats came out of halftime flat for some reason. The linebackers and safeties were not filling gaps effectively and the corners were passive in run support. That was not a big issue in the 1st half and got cleaned up in the 4th quarter. We all talk about playing 60 minutes...the Pats got away with playing 45 last night.

* Give some props to Eric Alexander. After Gay and Asante got assaulted on the final play, there was a reasonable chance that Clayton could have backpedaled, twisted and reached for the end zone. You generally think about defending the pass, not tackling. Alexander was alert and took down Clayton quickly and cleanly which prevented any backward momentum or chance for a lateral.

* I am more convinced than ever that the Pats are holding back offensive plays, saving them for the playoffs (meaning not putting them on film). Teams haven't covered Maroney all year and it took until game 12 to take advantage? Also the stretch run play looked great in preseason and seemed to take advantage of the OL and Maroney's strong points. Haven't seen it at all this season. TE or middle screens? Nada. Betcha we seem all of that in the playoffs.

* Any question that Maroney is a beautiful runner when in space? He hasn't been able to get out in space enough (blame him, OL, playcalling), but he is dynamite when there are gaps for him to attack.

* Homefield advantage is critical this year. The Steelers won't be able to grab and hold the receivers this week the way the Ravens did. That is just part of playing at home.

* The Pats OL is getting too much heat for the sacks on Brady last night. The Ivey sack was on Brady (he came free in Brady's face and the ball needed to go to the hot receiver) and the Ngata sack came after Brady had plenty of time to step up and throw. Light did get beat on the other sack, but all things considered that ain't bad against the Ravens.

* Boller had 105 passing yards (half his total) on the Darling pass and the Clayton hail mary. The Ravens had 96 rushing yards in the 2 3rd quarter drives...67 otherwise. No excuses (poor execution, lack of focus/intensity), but the defensive situation hardly sounds dire at this point. Wakeup call? Yep. Needs cleanup? Definitely. Concern? Not really. Panic? Nah.

***Mike the Brit*** · 12-04-2007, 12:10 PM

Thanks for the posts -- and just to reinforce Metaphors' opinions about Maroney. He is a great runner in a broken field; not (as yet) someone who can make great plays between the tackles. I only hope that they are going to find ways of exploiting that in the play-offs. (Last year he was a terrific kick returner. His injury and the lack of depth at running back are good reasons not to do it again, but it is an option.)

BoTown · 12-04-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metaphors

* Give some props to Eric Alexander. After Gay and Asante got assaulted on the final play, there was a reasonable chance that Clayton could have backpedaled, twisted and reached for the end zone. You generally think about defending the pass, not tackling. Alexander was alert and took down Clayton quickly and cleanly which prevented any backward momentum or chance for a lateral.

That was major. I saw on the replay Alexander was initially back in the middle of the field to defend the pass, but when he saw it heading for Clayton, he speeded right over to that side of the field, went behind Clayton just in time, and kept his leverage up to prevent Clayton from falling back into the end zone. Just a clutch play at the end of the game that prevented an atrocity, given as you said the offensive pass interference that wasn't called on that play.

All_Around_Brown · 12-04-2007, 01:48 PM

More on Maroneys points made above...

I kept wondering out loud last night why on earth we haven't used a pitch out to LoMo.

Anyone know when the last time was that we actually saw a play like this to either Faulk or Moroney..both who do well in open space??

Its like its not even in the playbook. Its all up the middle stuff which is a poor use of their skills IMO. Thats where Morris did well, but these are different backs.