maverick4

Someone please explain this to me, because I do not understand why people are able to label Belichick and the Pats as these classless cheaters, or how this threatens the integrity of the league?

Here is my example. In baseball, the catchers and managers cover their mouths during discussions. Why? Because it is an unspoken rule that everyone TRIES to steal signs, and the players respond accordingly. In the NFL, coaches routinely cover their mouths while calling in the plays. Why? Because it is an unspoken rule that everyone TRIES to steal the play call, and the coaches respond accordingly. Last year the Dolphins used audio surveillance to steal Brady's line calls, and I don't recall nearly as much media frenzy.

If it is determined that trying to steal calls is punishable, then isn't the entire NFL screwed? Every team is screwed. From what I understand, the violation is videotaping, but how is that way worse than simply having binoculars like every other team has, and how does videotaping even help a team during the game? Seems like it's more for post-game analysis, kind of like how everyone videotapes the play on field.

patpatriot

Because Americans love to tear down their heroes.

oldskool138

The Pats (or BB more specifically) are in trouble because they had a guy with Pats credentials filming where he wasn't supposed to be filming. That's it.

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"You're all a bunch yahoos, hero worshipers and gutless suck-ups." - Tony Massarotti

Grizzafted

The whole point is that it's not that big of a deal.

But this is a great chance for half of the known world to settle a score with Bill Belichick and try to throw the Patriots off their game. I mean, exactly, people's jobs are at stake, so don't you think Mike Tomlin, LT, and Jeff Fischer have a vested interest in making a huge mountain out of this molehill? And for the media ... well, it's a compelling story.

I think one thing that's huge that came out today is that the tape wasn't used at all for the Jets game. They took it in the first quarter, so the offensive shelacking we put on them was completely legitimate.

Beyond that... we're going to take our lumps, lose a 2nd round pick, and in a month people will be saying (privately), "of course you don't bet the outcome of a game on a few hand signals, and the truth is that it probably didn't make much of a difference for them anyway."

I think this is an important moment for sports journalism. I'd really like to see some kind of serious, in-depth piece about how useful this really is and how many teams do it.

It's already starting to blow over today, especially with like I said the revelation that the Pats performance on Sunday was completely legit.

1BoltFan Here4Fun

That is pretty much the point. Anything that tarnishes the NFL in the public view is something that Goddell has to respond to.

The Jets made a stink about it and the NFL had to respond. Now it is a story the national media will beat to death. It may suck, but you can't run from the story.

In my understanding of what I've seen, the whole issue was the presence of the video camera on the sidelines and the fact that the guy tried to enter the Pats locker room at half time. Otherwise, its business as usual.

maverick4

Videotaping on the sidelines doesn't give you an in-game edge, it may give an edge the same way that videotaping the play on the field may help you, by looking at it after the game and noticing tendencies (which all teams do).

I do not understand how the violation of videotaping is somehow extended into being called cheating or threatening the integrity of football or the NFL. By extending Belichick's violation to talking about cheating or integrity of the game, it creates a serious philosophical argument about what kind of preparation is permissable in football, and whether even videotaping the play on the field is considered cheating.

1BoltFan Here4Fun

hahahahahahaha. As IF BB is my hero... (sorry man, I couldn't resist)

Grogan's neck roll

It does give you an advantage, it's been covered in other threads, stop saying this. You can review the tape at half time, compare it to polaroids of defensive formations prior to the snap, and after the snap, and tell from there what the signs mean. There is plenty of time, no need to edit the tape, you turn on the camera when the coach is about to signal, you turn it off when he's done signalling. Not that complicated.

This isn't a "sacrilege", it's against the rules, it's an attempt to gain a competitive edge. Yes, others do it, the Pats got caught. But there is no denying they did something wrong, I don't subscribe to the "everyone else is doing it", I wouldn't let my son get away with that logic, never mind a grown man who knows the rules of his profession.

maverick4

Check out this recent ESPN article:
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http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sport...ory?id=3015550

Back in early August, we polled SportsNation on a plethora of issues regarding cheating in sports as part of a sitewide initiative called Cheatwave. In fact, we even took it off the field and asked how much you cheat in real life. If we ever find out which of you are in the 37% that take food that isn't yours from the communal refrigerator, expect a knock on the door.
In the light of the recent developments concerning the New England Patriots spying on the New York Jets and stealing their defensive signals, we decided to look back at what you told us before the season began. What did you think of the scenario when it was laid out to you as a hypothetical?

Look at the results below and join the Conversation to talk to other fans about what exactly constitutes cheating in the NFL.

The following results are from polls conducted from Aug. 9-10. To see complete list of NFL questions asked, click here.

A LITTLE EXTRA PEEK
Home teams often place video cameras on the sideline to record the opposing team's signals. The cameras are placed on the sideline under the guise that they provide extra game tape for the home team's coaches. When road teams attempt to get credentials for their sideline cameramen, the applications are usually rejected.
69.6% Cheating
30.4% Gamesmanship
Total Votes: 23,606

Your opinion on this issue hasn't changed. After it was announced that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell found the Patriots violated league rules and is considering severe sanctions, SportsNation weighed in with 68% agreeing that the Pats deserved some kind of punishment. Not surprisingly, the voters from Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Maine didn't agree.

SPYMASTER
Most teams send a scout to watch the game of the next opponent. The scout sits in the press box and tries to pick up signals from the other team. The team being scouted, however, will often have a coach on the sideline wearing a headset that is not plugged in, and he gives bogus signals to throw off the scout, as well as the opposing team.
90.1% Gamesmanship
9.9% Cheating
Total Votes: 23,606

So cheating is against the rules, but trying to embarrass the cheaters is perfectly OK. We like where you are going with this one, SportsNation! What if the Patriots had been videotaping bogus signs and found themselves in the wrong formations which led to a loss? Would we still be clamoring for sanctions? Right now, 32% of SportsNation feels the Patriots should lose multiple draft picks and pay a fine. Is that just because their actions might have paid off?

SIGNAL INTERCEPT
After the Dolphins defeated the Patriots 21-0 in Miami last season, Dolphins linebacker Zach Thomas claimed he knew the Patriots' audibles. He wasn't kidding. Teams sometimes will place microphones on their defensive players to tape the opposing team's audibles. The team then matches the audibles with the play the offense runs. In the shutout loss to Miami, the Patriots played their worst game of the season, as Tom Brady was sacked four times. Coincidence?
50.6% Gamesmanship
49.4% Cheating
Total Votes: 23,606

Wait a minute, SportsNation! Let's get this straight. Videotaping signals is bad, but audio is good? So if Peyton Manning walks up to the line and says "Blue 42, Red 38, Green 34", and you know exactly what that means from having taped it previously and frantically compared it to past plays, that's acceptable? How is that different from video?

We want to hear more of you feedback on the Patriots' situation, these poll results and anything else you have to say about cheating in the NFL. Join the Conversation below to sound off.

PatsFaninAZ

Obviously, this story is getting more traction because it's the patriots not the cardinals.

And obviously, it's not "sacrelege."

But man, are we so blinded by our desire to want it to be something that we can't see it for what it is? The league put a rule into place. They emphasized it. They did it, because they thought that it gave teams a competitive advantage.

Now the league is investigating whether the patriots broke that rule. If they did, though, they've done something the league has decided you shouldn't do because it gives you a competitive advantage. It's not more than that, but stripping away the hyperbole, it is that. And that's not good and not something I want my team involved in, so when Friday comes if that's what happened, I hope that Belichick and the team take it like men.

If you used a corked bat in baseball, you don't get to argue that it didn't really help you that much. Even if that's true -- and maybe it is -- it doesn't matter.