For those who don't think a "win is a win", a look back at the 03 Pats... - New England Patriots Forums

BradyManny · 12-04-2006, 07:35 PM

I said this in another thread but drew very little response, though I think it's a valid point - I feel us Patriot fans became spoiled by the dominance of the 2004 season and have completely unrealistic expectations of how an NFL team should perform week to week.

"Any given Sunday", as cliched as it has become, is the truth. The true test of a winner is not their margin of victory, but how they are able to grind out victories.

With the exception of the Jets game, so far, the identity of this Patriots team is very similar to the 2003 team which provided all the heart-pounding close calls that made the season so exciting to watch, yet also so nerve-wracking.

We rarely blew teams out, and found a lot of victories either just by holding on or coming from behind.

The 2004 Pats completely spoiled us as fans. Now, if we don't win dominantly, we aren't happy. Yesterday wasn't a great win by any stretch, but it was a win, and just to refresh a few memories, here are a few similar victories from 03, it's been sometime since I've watched the 03 DVD, so I'm going to sit down and do that, but for now, some quick recaps...

Patriots 17, Giants 6
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031012_NYG@NE
"The New England Patriots proved that statistics don't win football games -- defense and perseverance does. Outgained 199-29 in a first half in which they had just one first down, the Patriots rallied behind Tom Brady and Kevin Faulk and beat the New York Giants 17-6 on Sunday."
Scary stat of the game -
Brady: 8/21 for 112 yards

Patriots 19, Dolphins 13
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031019_NE@MIA
"The New England Patriots needed two missed field goals and their longest pass play of the season to finally win in the Miami heat...The Dolphins (4-2) had two chances to win the game. But Olindo Mare missed a pair of field-goal attempts on the infield dirt. The NFL's second most accurate kicker of all time had one blocked near the end of regulation and missed one wide right in overtime -- both on dirt."
Scary stat of the game -
Patriots: 59 net yards rushing

Patriots 9, Browns 3
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031026_CLE@NE
"The Patriots won without a touchdown because Couch and Holcomb struggled. Couch went 7 for 11 for 40 yards, while Holcomb was 15 for 25 for 115 yards."

Patriots 30, Broncos 26
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031103_NE@DEN
"It came after coach Bill Belichick's call for a deliberate safety with his team, trailing 24-23, backed up on their own 1 on fourth down with 2:49 left."

Patriots 12, Cowboys 0
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031116_DAL@NE
"The Patriots, helped by two long passes by a mostly ineffective Tom Brady and 10 penalties against the Cowboys, had enough offense to win their sixth consecutive game and give Belichick a 3-2 career record over Parcells."
Brady: 15/34 for 212 yards

Patriots 23, Texans 20
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031123_NE@HOU
"For all his misfortune, Adam Vinatieri wasn't going to let New England 's winning streak end with a tie. He rebounded from a miss off the right upright in regulation and a block early in overtime to hit a 28-yarder with 41 seconds. The Patriots escaped Houston with a 23-20 victory, extending their winning streak to seven and establishing their best 11-game start at 9-2."
Brady: 2 INTs & a fumble loss
Fans will remember this as the single ugliest win of all in the 21 game streak

Patriots 38, Colts 34
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031130_NE@IND
"McGinest's game-saving tackle typified the Patriots' charmed season....
But Manning valiantly rallied the Colts from a 21-point deficit for the second time this season. He converted Brady's first interception into a 13-yard touchdown pass to Reggie Wayne. Three plays later, Brady was picked off again. On the next play, Manning threw a 26-yard strike to Marvin Harrison to make it 31-24 with 14 seconds left in the third quarter. "
Once again, another ugly game (particularly the 2nd half) we pulled out simply because we were tougher down the stretch.

Patriots 21, Jets 17
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031220_NE@NYJ
"The New England Patriots won their 11th straight game in typical fashion Saturday night: They pulled out yet another close game thanks to their defense."
Won in part thanks to picking off Pennington 5 times

mosi · 12-04-2006, 07:43 PM

In the past, the Pats won games by playing solid, albeit conservative football. We almost always won the turnover battle and never made the stupid mistakes. This year, we have not played well at home. I would argue that we have been outplayed in every home game and could have easily lost every won of those games. We are winning, but making way to many mistakes in the process. We can make those mistake against the bad teams and win. We can't against the better teams. That is the fear.

spacecrime · 12-04-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

I said this in another thread but drew very little response, though I think it's a valid point - I feel us Patriot fans became spoiled by the dominance of the 2004 season and have completely unrealistic expectations of how an NFL team should perform week to week.

Are you sure? I thought for the last four years the Patriots never turned the ball over, never missed a tackle, never ran draw plays on third and 8, never let Patrick Pass touch the ball, never let another team complete a pass, never ever made any stupid mistakes.

Last year they were 16-0 before blowing out every team they faced in the playoffs and winning the superbowl 135-0.

It's not whether you win or lose, it's how much style you show in winning.

Seriously I think you are right. I blame it on the influx of fans since 2001. They don't know football, they want to cheer a winner. A real winner. Winning isn't enough. Winning with style is required. I don't think any of them were around fifteen years ago for the doldums. There were fewer fans, but we were fans of the team, who appreciated football and hung around when our team was losing. You can bet that no one in 1990 comlained about us looking bad in beating the Colts in week 2 that year:

Sun 9/9/1990 1:00 PM vs Dolphins NBC 27-24 L
Sun 9/16/1990 1:00 PM @ Colts NBC 16-14 W
Sun 9/23/1990 1:00 PM @ Bengals NBC 41-7 L
Sun 9/30/1990 1:00 PM vs Jets NBC 37-13 L
Sun 10/7/1990 1:00 PM vs Seahawks NBC 33-20 L
Thu 10/18/1990 8:00 PM @ Dolphins TNT 17-10 L
Sun 10/28/1990 1:00 PM vs Bills NBC 27-10 L
Sun 11/4/1990 1:00 PM @ Eagles NBC 48-20 L
Sun 11/11/1990 1:00 PM vs Colts NBC 13-10 L
Sun 11/18/1990 1:00 PM @ Bills NBC 14-0 L
Sun 11/25/1990 1:00 PM @ Cardinals NBC 34-14 L
Sun 12/2/1990 1:00 PM vs Chiefs NBC 37-7 L
Sun 12/9/1990 1:00 PM @ Steelers NBC 24-3 L
Sat 12/15/1990 1:00 PM vs Redskins NBC 25-10 L
Sun 12/23/1990 1:00 PM @ Jets NBC 42-7 L
Sun 12/30/1990 1:00 PM vs Giants NBC 13-10 L

RayClay · 12-04-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosi

In the past, the Pats won games by playing solid, albeit conservative football. We almost always won the turnover battle and never made the stupid mistakes. This year, we have not played well at home. I would argue that we have been outplayed in every home game and could have easily lost every won of those games. We are winning, but making way to many mistakes in the process. We can make those mistake against the bad teams and win. We can't against the better teams. That is the fear.

Actually, I think this is a good point. We've never, even in 2004 been this perfect consistent team.

We were able to eke out heart attack wins in 2003 by playing solid, mistake free ball and letting teams beat themselves.

This team is able to roll on some teams like Minny, the Bengals, and Green Bay while bumbling around in other games, (but still winning

).

I think this team can gain consistency and they have more depth on offense by far than they've had before.

If they gain consistency, look out!, (that's what practice is for).

The Defense is a well oiled machine as long as we have the parts.

9-3 with their best ball ahead of them? I think so.

3 to be 4 · 12-04-2006, 10:08 PM

Its a great post BradyManny. I dont know where people get this idea that teams blow through other teams week after week after week, even the great teams of NFL history. the '72 Dolphins won their playoff games 20-14, 21-17, and 14-7, for example.
Fans who go back can appreciate the feat of just being 9-3 at this point in the season. the Patriots have only done this in 1976,1978,1986,2003, and 2004.
When Bob Kraft bought the team his goal was to make the Patriots an organization like the 49ers had. Since 1994 there have been 8 playoff berths, 6 Division titles, 4 AFC Titles, 3 World Championships. And in 2006 they are 9-3. Not bad in 12 years.
All the other great teams had stretches where they were less than perfect.
the 1977 Steelers, the 3 years (1985-1988) the 49ers couldnt win a playoff game, Aikman in 1994 losing at SF...
When you are in the middle of it you lose perspective and get spoiled.
The Patriots are in the mix AGAIN.
never NOT appreciate a win in the NFL. Or having a 9-3 team.
out here in KC the fans here are dying after the Chiefs blew the game in Cleveland to go 7-5. It brought me back to a game in Denver in 1984 when the 7-3 Patriots were tied with the Broncos, driving for a game winning field goal, when Mosi Tatupu fumbled and the ball was run back by the Broncos for the game winning score. That is what it used to be like to be a Patriots fan.

Dont ever lose sight not only what this team has accomplished, but what it is still accomplishing. No win is ugly.

Murphys95 · 12-04-2006, 10:13 PM

'03 is a valid comparison, but to me the biggest difference between then and now is playmakers. It doesn't seem the current squad has the same level of playmakers as the '03 team did. It's either that or the lack of big plays (comparitively speaking).

2003 is easily remembered by Troy Brown's 82 yard overtime catch in Miami, Ty Law's 65 yard interception return against the Titans, Brady's last minute touchdown to Givens in Denver, Willie's goal line stand against Edgerrin James, and Bruschi's 5 yard interception for a touchdown on Fiedler and the Phins in the snow. It was easily one of the most memorable seasons ever based on individual plays.

I think you make a great point about perspective, the Patriots played to the level of the competition back then just as they do now. This is a fantastic season.

RayClay · 12-04-2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3 to be 4

Its a great post BradyManny. I dont know where people get this idea that teams blow through other teams week after week after week, even the great teams of NFL history. the '72 Dolphins won their playoff games 20-14, 21-17, and 14-7, for example.
Fans who go back can appreciate the feat of just being 9-3 at this point in the season. the Patriots have only done this in 1976,1978,1986,2003, and 2004.
When Bob Kraft bought the team his goal was to make the Patriots an organization like the 49ers had. Since 1994 there have been 8 playoff berths, 6 Division titles, 4 AFC Titles, 3 World Championships. And in 2006 they are 9-3. Not bad in 12 years.
All the other great teams had stretches where they were less than perfect.
the 1977 Steelers, the 3 years (1985-1988) the 49ers couldnt win a playoff game, Aikman in 1994 losing at SF...
When you are in the middle of it you lose perspective and get spoiled.
The Patriots are in the mix AGAIN.
never NOT appreciate a win in the NFL. Or having a 9-3 team.
out here in KC the fans here are dying after the Chiefs blew the game in Cleveland to go 7-5. It brought me back to a game in Denver in 1984 when the 7-3 Patriots were tied with the Broncos, driving for a game winning field goal, when Mosi Tatupu fumbled and the ball was run back by the Broncos for the game winning score. That is what it used to be like to be a Patriots fan.

Dont ever lose sight not only what this team has accomplished, but what it is still accomplishing. No win is ugly.

Oh please, can't I blow all this salary cap money on a shiny free agent?

Just this once?

Great post. It's never easy and pretty and it never has been.

9-3 is looking mighty fine from where I'm sitting.

notex · 12-04-2006, 10:41 PM

.if we finished with 3 losses itd be exceding my expectations....the fact is that i thnk we still have the players that will make big plays in BIG games. who would you rather have lined up on defense then seymour bruschi and rodney harrison come playoff time... our tom brady in the 4th quarter..
im confident we will put all the peices together...
its not like we have one major glaring hole...i think every position has shown flashes of excellence and we just need to find a way to get all cylinders going at the same time
...think about it...we are in much better shape then a team like the bears who have one of the worst qb's in the league - that cant be fixed mid-season.

i bet BB works alot on ball protection its not like were the only ones noticing it...if we can stop fumbling i think were set.