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Old 10-19-2006, 12:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyManny2344
His stats are basically the same as David Givens. Take that for what it's worth, if anything.
Stats in terms of receptions - yes

Stats in terms of stretching the field - no.

Last year Gaffney was picking up just under 9 years per reception. Less than most TEs. About the same as a lot of pass catching RBs.

He's really a possession receiver unlike Givens who, along with Branch was very much a deep threat.
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSixPat
Stats in terms of receptions - yes

Stats in terms of stretching the field - no.

Last year Gaffney was picking up just under 9 years per reception. Less than most TEs. About the same as a lot of pass catching RBs.

He's really a possession receiver unlike Givens who, along with Branch was very much a deep threat.

I think the thing that both Givens and particularly Branch excelled at was Intermediate routes (20-30 yards). Not necessarily deep routes (40+).

Gaffney's 9 ypc is far lower than intermediate level, however. We need that intermediate threat to back off those LBs and keep the Safeties deep. Our running game could and would dominate if we found a consistent intermediate threat at WR post-Branch/Givens.
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

The Patriots front office is smart. They try to construct a team and various squads are all patterned to fulfill a complete profile of talents, preventing a situation where they are strong in one area but have a glaring hole elsewhere. they use situational substitution to bring the requisite attributes to the field when needed.

In the situation with the WR squad, the old WR squad had some obvious weaknesses. They had little size. All attempts to bring in sizeable WRs failed. They also tended to have possession guys but no real speed. BJ was a failure, Patten was tiny, and Dwight and Davis were just not satisfactory as deep speed. The small possession types also seemed to get dinged up too much.

This present WR squad all have respectable size. Gabriel looks to be the big deep-post kind of guy that they looked for in Don Hayes, and Andre Davis and even BJ. Now they have found him.

What they didn't seem to have other than aging Troy was a another possession receiver. Jabbar Gaffney has demonstrated in his career that he is a possession receiver. The same size as Givens, with similar NFL production he even has slightly better speed, if not quite the degree of "toughness".

(It also explains partially why the Eagles didn't want him. They were looking for a a TO big deep-post kind of guy, and Gaffney just is not that kind of guy. If Troy Brown was trying to be the Don Hayes, Musihn Muhammed, Doug Gabriel kind of receiver he would fail too.)

Caldwell has size and toughness and has demonstrated that he can make the move-the-chains catches, and he blocks for the run very well. He just doesn't seem to get open as much as a true possession type. But he has hands down, much more speed than Givens or Brown.

CJ is the big SPEED receiver even if he hasn't shown much. With world-class speed, he only has to catch a couple of deep bombs and there will be instant respect. Because Speed kills. He could compliment and add to Gabriel's talents.

The five represent all the various talents that you want. The question is whether there is enough talent to succeed at any one requirement. The question is muddied by unfamiliarity. By game twelve the question should be answerable. I suspect the answer will be in the affirmative, but obviously could be wrong.
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much about Gaffney. They have him for a couple years on the cheap, and if he appears in the line-up down the road as a 5th WR, than great. If not, then it just means he was warming the Childress spot on the roster.

I think that he won't really be active for a while, unless somebody gets hurt.

He is not our next star player or fan favorite in my opinion, but just the 5th guy at WR. Like Andre Davis and others, he will most likely just hold a back-up spot for a while.

He would be with another team already if he was worth starting, IMO.

He should go ahead and get involved in special teams if he wants to assure some game action.
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Old 10-19-2006, 02:04 PM   #15
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Talking Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSixPat
Stats in terms of receptions - yes

Stats in terms of stretching the field - no.

Last year Gaffney was picking up just under 9 years per reception. Less than most TEs. About the same as a lot of pass catching RBs.

He's really a possession receiver unlike Givens who, along with Branch was very much a deep threat.
Givens was not a deep threat. With his speed (4.5+) he was a possession receiver. He did run after catch for a some big gains that raised his average per catch.

There IS a difference.

One of Brady's talents is to hit men in full stride allowing YAC to be better than most.
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Old 10-19-2006, 02:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSixPat
Stats in terms of receptions - yes

Stats in terms of stretching the field - no.

Last year Gaffney was picking up just under 9 years per reception. Less than most TEs. About the same as a lot of pass catching RBs.

.
But the year before, it was 15.4 ypc. Keep in mnid that the guy throwing to him in Houston, David Carr had an offensive line with ore holes than Swiss cheese and he didn't have a lot of time for Gaffney to run his routes. I wonder how many of those patterns were blitz pickups where he had to cut off his route to adjust. 15.4 may have been on the high side while 9 may have been on the low side with his average about 11.4 which it was in the previous two seasons.....
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Old 10-19-2006, 02:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzPatsFan
The Patriots front office is smart. They try to construct a team and various squads are all patterned to fulfill a complete profile of talents, preventing a situation where they are strong in one area but have a glaring hole elsewhere. they use situational substitution to bring the requisite attributes to the field when needed.
Not trying to bash the front office, but this year's WR corps was not part of a master plan... its very much a Frankenstien monster of sorts that's making the best of a bad situation.

The Patriots are always trying to plan ahead. The plan they hoped to achieve was to have Derrick Mason under contract last year, making Branch a #2 WR and Givens a #3. By doing so they would have limited Branch and Given's market value. While they might not have been able to keep them both I think they expected keeping one was a real possibility.

But not every plan can go as you'd wish. They did not count on the salary cap inflating the way it did, giving Givens a huge payday to sweep him away.

They did not expect the Branch situation to play out the way it did with him unavailable in 2006.

And to a lesser degree the didn't expect Jackson's injury - though that can happen to anyone anytime - but ideally they'd never put too much pressure on a rookie anyways.

So the front office may be smart, but their plan was NOT to have Troy Brown as a defacto #1 WR. They did not plan to make a last minute trade for Gabriel - though they are glad and lucky they were able to get him. And if Gaffney were the best thing since sliced bread they'd not have waited 5 weeks until every other team took a pass on him. As far as Caldwell, they likely saw his potential but BB general equates future performance with past performance so I doubt he was counting on Caldwell to be a #2 WR either.

That's not to say the "system" the Pats have doesn't work - its just that it doesn't always go exactly the way they want - and in this case, it was far from what they wanted.
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSixPat
Not trying to bash the front office, but this year's WR corps was not part of a master plan... its very much a Frankenstien monster of sorts that's making the best of a bad situation.

The Patriots are always trying to plan ahead. The plan they hoped to achieve was to have Derrick Mason under contract last year, making Branch a #2 WR and Givens a #3. By doing so they would have limited Branch and Given's market value. While they might not have been able to keep them both I think they expected keeping one was a real possibility.

But not every plan can go as you'd wish. They did not count on the salary cap inflating the way it did, giving Givens a huge payday to sweep him away.

They did not expect the Branch situation to play out the way it did with him unavailable in 2006.


And to a lesser degree the didn't expect Jackson's injury - though that can happen to anyone anytime - but ideally they'd never put too much pressure on a rookie anyways.

So the front office may be smart, but their plan was NOT to have Troy Brown as a defacto #1 WR. They did not plan to make a last minute trade for Gabriel - though they are glad and lucky they were able to get him. And if Gaffney were the best thing since sliced bread they'd not have waited 5 weeks until every other team took a pass on him. As far as Caldwell, they likely saw his potential but BB general equates future performance with past performance so I doubt he was counting on Caldwell to be a #2 WR either.

That's not to say the "system" the Pats have doesn't work - its just that it doesn't always go exactly the way they want - and in this case, it was far from what they wanted.

Whether it was an anticipated or unanticipated cluster****** or not, is not the question. The answer is what they did about it.

They did not go out and sign another deep receiver like Kevin Johnson or Jerry Porter or Randy Moss. They recognized that they needed a mix of talents and Gaffney, a possession receiver, was the last guy they signed.


They have the big Speed type - CJ
They have the big deep-post guy - DG
They have the wily old pro Possession type - TB
They have the tough run blocking more than possession type - RC
They have the pure possession type - JG

So they end up with two deep types, two possession types, three move-the-chains types, and at least two run blocking types. Whatever is the need, they have a couple of guys, who maybe can't do it all, but can do their own thing adequately.

They have all demonstrated their own particular talent in their NFL careers, except for the rookie speedster. Situational substitution is anticipated, and they are prepared with the right jigsaw puzzle pieces.
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Old 10-19-2006, 04:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzPatsFan
Whether it was an anticipated or unanticipated cluster****** or not, is not the question. The answer is what they did about it.

They did not go out and sign another deep receiver like Kevin Johnson or Jerry Porter or Randy Moss. They recognized that they needed a mix of talents and Gaffney, a possession receiver, was the last guy they signed.


They have the big Speed type - CJ
They have the big deep-post guy - DG
They have the wily old pro Possession type - TB
They have the tough run blocking more than possession type - RC
They have the pure possession type - JG

So they end up with two deep types, two possession types, three move-the-chains types, and at least two run blocking types. Whatever is the need, they have a couple of guys, who maybe can't do it all, but can do their own thing adequately.

They have all demonstrated their own particular talent in their NFL careers, except for the rookie speedster. Situational substitution is anticipated, and they are prepared with the right jigsaw puzzle pieces.
Unfortunately, until he can get on the field and show Defenses they should respect him, our speed guy has a hamstring problem and thus, no speed.

Let's hope you're right about Gabriel - but no defense is fearful of his deep threat just yet.

Then I agree, we've got a bunch of short possession receivers.

Thank God (IMO) they didn't waste draft picks for a KJ, Moss, or Porter - that wouldn't be making the best of a bad situation - it'd be making the worst of a bad situation. And that's being said by a guy who wishes we DID have a deep threat.

So unless they get creative and start confusing OCs by sending Watson and Thomas deep - and have them make some plays - we're just going to have to accept the fact that Defenses have little reason to respect our deep threat and will collapse, letting Safeties come in to make plays and attempt sacks.

We've generally come to expect that the Patriots coaching staff can make a silk purse from a sow's ear - but that will take some creative play calling and we're all still waiting for that.
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Old 10-19-2006, 04:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: I'm not too sure what to make of Gaffney...

Here's the Outsiders quote from PFP2006, back when he was looking like he'd be with Philly, back in the July/August timeframe.

"Sort of a bargain-basement Keyshawn Johnson. He's not an explosive playmaker, but he's a decent possession receiver. David Carr and the coaching staff came to rely on him on third downs, but that doesn't change the fact that he caught only 50% of his third down passes. He'll probably fit in with all the other disappointing Eagles receivers."

-- Pro Football Prospectus 2006
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