The Secondary: Confirming Artrell Hawkins as a Starter - New England Patriots Forums

Seymour93 · 10-09-2006, 12:15 PM

When Eugene Wilson returns with full fitness, should he be thrown into the starting lineup at the expense of Hawkins? Frankly I don't think he should. The secondary looked shaky at best during the first three games in which Wilson was the starter.

Both Hawkins and Chad Scott have stepped up since Week 3. Scott has done a good job shutting down the Bengals' and Dolphins' slot WR's. Washington for CIN had three catches, while Miami's Booker ended the day with just two. If I'm correct, nickelback Scott's man for both games were the slot WR's Washington and Booker. In the past Welker was the Miami #3, but yesterday it appeared Hobbs was on him all day long. Hobbs is our #2 CB so Welker apparently was promoted within the Dolphin offense.

The free safety's job is to not allow the big plays. We saw against the Jets that those long passes made that game competitive late on when it shouldn't have been close. Denver and Javon Walker, well there's no need to go into that again. It's generally agreed league-wide that the Bengals have one of the deepest WR corps, and that they particularly excel at YAC. The Miami WR's aren't as renowned, however in both games there were hardly any missed tackles from the secondary, most of all there were no long TD's.

What caused the sudden solidifying of the secondary? I don't know what did. Only the coaching staff and players do. But my best guess is the play of both Hawkins and Scott.

Eugene Wilson has been a corner before. As long as Hawkins is playing well I wouldn't mind seeing Wilson line up as our #2 CB or nickelback, while being the first guy to come in for either Hawkins or Harrison. Hobbs and Wilson can battle for the starting #2 CB. Look at what Chad Scott is doing as the nickelback. Having him as the dime is a real plus. Poteat is a solid #5 CB. We're deep at secondary, especially at CB, if all stay healthy, which is no easy task.

With Wilson moving to CB, the secondary would be looking like this...

_________FS__________SS_________
_______Hawkins_____Harrison______
#1 CB_______________________#2 CB
Asante____________________Wilson/Hobbs

Wilson/Hobbs, Scott, and Poteat on the sidelines or on the field in other packages.

BradyManny · 10-09-2006, 12:19 PM

Put me in the Artrell Hawkins fan club.

Wilson looked like a future Pro Bowler after his first year but has never really gotten close to that level again. Not sure how that happens. Maybe we all just overrated him?

Hobbs likewise looked like a stud towards the end of the season last year, but has looked shaky as of late.

The good news is, there's a lot of solid pieces they can move around and play with - we have some depth there.

***T-ShirtDynasty*** · 10-09-2006, 12:30 PM

Good stuff Seymour, thanks!

I'm in a quandry with what to do with Wilson. I've never been in the "move Wilson to corner" crowd that formed last year or the year before, but at the same time, I don't want Hawkins on the bench. I just dunno.

Regarding Hobbs, I was under the impression that he was playing a lot of nickel yesterday, with Samuel and Scott manning the RCB/LCB spots. I wouldn't swear to it, and I haven't watched the game again, yet. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong before I get a chance to. I was assuming it was a temporary "demotion" because the cast on his arm looked to really affect his balance, but not to the point that BB felt Poteat would be better against the slot.

BradyManny · 10-09-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-ShirtDynasty

I was assuming it was a temporary "demotion" because the cast on his arm looked to really affect his balance, but not to the point that BB felt Poteat would be better against the slot.

My guess too - I thought the cast hindered him on a couple plays - anyone else agree? Most noticeably, I think he wouldn't have had to facemask that guy if he didn't have a cast on his arm. It changed the way he made plays/tackles.

D-cleater · 10-09-2006, 12:42 PM

Man, I wanted to start this thread but work basically only allows me to sneak on for quick replies :-p

Add me to the Hawkins bandwagon. We've just seen Wilson miss on too many big plays, especially this season and last. I'd just as soon give him the benefit of the doubt, that is, he's playing within the scheme, but you simply can't deny the execution looks better by Hawkins.

Seymour93 · 10-09-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-ShirtDynasty

Good stuff Seymour, thanks!

No problem. Browsing through a few of the threads today motivated me to make a serious football topic like this.

Quote:

I'm in a quandry with what to do with Wilson. I've never been in the "move Wilson to corner" crowd that formed last year or the year before, but at the same time, I don't want Hawkins on the bench. I just dunno.

I'm in the same boat as you. Wilson has always had my full support, but like you say if it means keeping Hawkins on the sidelines then I think a change is necessary. Let's try to accommodate them both. Wilson is the most flexible of the two, so that's why he should be moved IMO. He's still going to be seeing a lot of PT, just at a different position.

Quote:

Regarding Hobbs, I was under the impression that he was playing a lot of nickel yesterday, with Samuel and Scott manning the RCB/LCB spots. I wouldn't swear to it, and I haven't watched the game again, yet. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong before I get a chance to. I was assuming it was a temporary "demotion" because the cast on his arm looked to really affect his balance, but not to the point that BB felt Poteat would be better against the slot.

That makes sense. You're probably right because Hobbs wasn't 100%. Welker could've technically still have been the #3 WR, so Hobbs had him if he was the nickel.

Seymour93 · 10-09-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymour93

Wilson/Hobbs, Scott, and Poteat on the sidelines or on the field in other packages.

Uhh, throw away the whole plan, BB apparently had something else in mind.

Poteat wasn't out there much against the Dolphins. I wonder what the problem was.

***T-ShirtDynasty*** · 10-09-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymour93

Uhh, throw away the whole plan, BB apparently had something else in mind.

Poteat wasn't out there much against the Dolphins. I wonder what the problem was.

Emergence of Chad Scott pushing an injured Hobbs down to the nickel? Not sure.

Anybody notice who was the dime back, or didn't we run the dime much? Grrr... I gotta rewatch that game.

MrBigglesWorth · 10-09-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymour93

When Eugene Wilson returns with full fitness, should he be thrown into the starting lineup at the expense of Hawkins? Frankly I don't think he should. The secondary looked shaky at best during the first three games in which Wilson was the starter.

Both Hawkins and Chad Scott have stepped up since Week 3. Scott has done a good job shutting down the Bengals' and Dolphins' slot WR's. Washington for CIN had three catches, while Miami's Booker ended the day with just two. If I'm correct, nickelback Scott's man for both games were the slot WR's Washington and Booker. In the past Welker was the Miami #3, but yesterday it appeared Hobbs was on him all day long. Hobbs is our #2 CB so Welker apparently was promoted within the Dolphin offense.

The free safety's job is to not allow the big plays. We saw against the Jets that those long passes made that game competitive late on when it shouldn't have been close. Denver and Javon Walker, well there's no need to go into that again. It's generally agreed league-wide that the Bengals have one of the deepest WR corps, and that they particularly excel at YAC. The Miami WR's aren't as renowned, however in both games there were hardly any missed tackles from the secondary, most of all there were no long TD's.

What caused the sudden solidifying of the secondary? I don't know what did. Only the coaching staff and players do. But my best guess is the play of both Hawkins and Scott.

Eugene Wilson has been a corner before. As long as Hawkins is playing well I wouldn't mind seeing Wilson line up as our #2 CB or nickelback, while being the first guy to come in for either Hawkins or Harrison. Hobbs and Wilson can battle for the starting #2 CB. Look at what Chad Scott is doing as the nickelback. Having him as the dime is a real plus. Poteat is a solid #5 CB. We're deep at secondary, especially at CB, if all stay healthy, which is no easy task.

With Wilson moving to CB, the secondary would be looking like this...

_________FS__________SS_________
_______Hawkins_____Harrison______
#1 CB_______________________#2 CB
Asante____________________Wilson/Hobbs

Wilson/Hobbs, Scott, and Poteat on the sidelines or on the field in other packages.

Well you bring up a couple of valid points. But you also don't mention that Marty Booker got injured yesterday.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=2449

He didn't play in the second half so that's where Welker mysteriously was promoted.

Let's go back to the Denver game. The second Walker touch down was cover two with asante low and sanders over the top. sanders took a terrible angle and missed him all together. So it's not fair to blame wilson especially since he was out becuase of cramping, the injury which he is probably out for now. and if i'm recalling right harrison was out of the game at times too.

as for the jets game... cotchery made an awesome play.

now i know wilson has taken some bad angles and did some bad tackling, but keep in mind the start of camp they ahd him playing some corner back too.

as of right now i'm neither pro wilson or pro hawkins. i'd say let wilson get healthy and keep hawkins in their. we should be happy the pats have all this "depth". the coaches will make the decision when wilson is healthy. i say keep hawkins in their primarily and split time to keep everyone fresh.

i hear ya...but you argument is a bit skewed

MrBigglesWorth · 10-09-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seymour93

No problem. Browsing through a few of the threads today motivated me to make a serious football topic like this.

I'm in the same boat as you. Wilson has always had my full support, but like you say if it means keeping Hawkins on the sidelines then I think a change is necessary. Let's try to accommodate them both. Wilson is the most flexible of the two, so that's why he should be moved IMO. He's still going to be seeing a lot of PT, just at a different position.

That makes sense. You're probably right because Hobbs wasn't 100%. Welker could've technically still have been the #3 WR, so Hobbs had him if he was the nickel.

i beleive welker and hobbs were lined up in the slot