mgteich

We all agree that Seymour and Brady are worth top money.

Should the patriots be willing to pay anyone else top 10 money (top 10 at their position)? After all we are a T-E-A-M, not a group of individual stars. Someone could check, but my suspicion is that Colvin and Green already get top 10 money.

Branch?
Graham?
Samuel?
Koppen?
anyone?

Should we pay Branch and draw the line; or should we draw the line and give Branch a long vacation.

Is Branch worth more given Jackson's injury and Caldwell's performance? Is he worth more because Givens is gone? If not, why not?

patsox23

Brady. Seymour. Possibly Wilfork in a couple of years. Maroney down-the-line? Watson in a couple years. Otherwise...no one.

Not sure why you think Green might be paid top 10 money - do you mean top 10 for a depth/rotation DL? If so, I guess but who cares?

PatsWickedPissah

No, the Pats do not have another top 10 player so the simple answer is they should pay NOBODY ELSE top 10 money at this time. Only Graham on your list has the potential to be a top 10 and his value is mitigated by Watson; no way in this O that Graham gets big #s. He might be better served elsewhere.

AndyJohnson

I dont know that Branch is top 10, but since there are 2 WR postions, maybe we should be saying top 20? I think he is soemwhere in between.
Graham IMO is clearly a top 10 TE.
Samuel is not a top 10 nor top 20 corner. He is a good starterbut probably more like 30-40 in the NFL.
Koppen is tricky to me. C is a position where it seems easy to plug young players in who play very well, but the flip side is a bad C can really kill your OL. Top 10? Are there 2 worse starting Cs for everyone that is better than Koppen? Tough call, but I would think by the end of 2006 the answer would be clear to BB. (Last years injury and not enough experience yet says to me this is an inconclusive)

To answer your other questions, of course we need to have top 10 players. Being a TEAM doesn't mean having 53 guys roughly equal in average ability. Being a team is playing like and thinking like a team. Excellent players fit this as well. Its a misconception to me to say that a team attitude prohibits talented players. Theoretically about 1/3 of our players should be top 10 at their position (top 20 for spots like CB, WR, G, DE, etc where there are 2 of each) since there are 32 teams. That would be 7-8 starters. To say Brady and Seymour fill the boat of talent is a mistake. Team play isnt going to matter much of the guys playing as a team cannot execute as football players.

Personally, I think that I think I understand BBs philosophy in terms of should other players impact the decision.
I say no. I think BB judges value individually, builds the best roster he can, then molds it into a team. If that means he finds more value in one area than another he adjusts. When BB finds a 'good football player' at a reasonable price he gets him. Get Harrison when you have Milloy, sign Victor Green and create the big nickel. Win 2 SBs with a crappy RB, then get Corey Dillon because the price is right and lean more on the running game to win a 3rd. Get Roman Phifer to be a 3rd down cover guy--basically there appeared to be no spot for him, get starting good quality OLB play from him; get younger at OLB, move him inside, etc, etc ,etc.

That to me is BB philosophy.
1) There are skills that are necessary in his system.
2) You find every good football who possesses those skills
3) You fit the pieces together into a team, scheme, and tweaking of philososphy AFTER they are here.

Therefore ANY good football player (providing they fit the skillsets) fits and it can be figured out how to carve out a role, and NO ONE is irreplacable.
That said, there is no plan that overcomes a lack of talent, so while that top 10 guy isnt irreplacable, he still has the value of a top 10 guy.

mgteich

Green makes $3.6M a year. How much does the #10 DE make?

DaBruinz

Now MG, you have made the fatal Sal Cap vs. Salary error.

Green is NOT making 3.6 million a year. IF Green reaches his escalators, he could make that much. But Green is only making an average of 2.62 million a year before his escalators. Last year, Green made just shy of 4 million (455KK base and 3.5 Signing bonus) and this year he will get his 2.5 million roster bonus and a salary of 545K.

I think that there are 10 DEs who's contracts average more than what Green is making.

Kdo5

The Pats are saving up for Graham. He is worth just as much as Deion Branch. He is worth more than Watson as well. Ofcourse if anyoen on next years free agents list comes even remotely close it would be Koppen or Graham.

mgteich

You are correct, Green only received a bit over $3M this year, and just shy of $4M last year. As you say, next year's total will depend on incentives.

I was just pointing out that Green is very, very well-paid.

mgteich

You think that graham will get more than $6M per year????
What do you mean save up? Even if Graham were to get a $10M bonus and average $6M a year over 4 years, the cap hit would only be about $3.5M.

italian pat patriot

no-one excluded of course Brady and Seymour; but let's see in the future... perhaps Maroney and Watson comes to my mind now