RayClay

Love Tom, don't get me wrong, but if you've been a Patriots fan more than 5-10 years, I think you realize the importance of a great and stable coaching, ownership situation.

Belichick with Kraft was going to put together a winner eventually in my mind.

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patsfan13

QB is the most important position in FB, it has to be Brady, even though his career isn't over.

Hannah is as good as any O lineman who has ever played.

Haynes was one of the best CB's to ever play.

Cunningham, one of the great FB's in the history of the game, could run well and a devastiting blocker.

Francis pre injury a great TE

Tippett, a great LB

Morgan, stretched the field all the time

Nance, great RB on some poor teams

Other than Brady it is hard to place the current players in the proper context. Willie Mac, AV, TB, Branch, Harrison, others in the SB run are all making their mark.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

D-cleater

Sorry, Brady has won us three super bowls. ofcourse he didn't do it alone...thats not the point. you have to pick one player out of a team of 53. Brady was as responsible for our wins as Hannah was for our running game - so call it a push in that respect. But being the ultimate sleeper, being picked in the 6th round, coming out of nowhere.....there's just something special about Brady. He transcends himsef as a football player. He is "our Montana".

patsfan13

Good point about the owner & coach. I would say BB has already locked up best coach, and all our owners besides Kraft have been disasters.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

the taildragger

I think we all love Hannah. It's hardly nostalgic to appreciate that guy, or Tippett (who should be a HoFer!!), or even Haynes, but it certainly is nostalgia to stack those guys above our current hero. None of those guys ever merited serious consideration as the best player of their eras.

It's not about "talent," it's about value. In terms of positions, guard hasn't been more valuable than QB since the legalization of the forward pass 90 years ago. That's not to say that a guard couldn't be more valuable than a QB, but just that given two equally dominant players at those positions, you always take the QB.

If it comes down to a question of pure talent, then perhaps Steve Smith is a better football player than Brady. The question really is, who would you choose to start your ultimate Pats team?...would anyone honestly take Hannah and risk losing TB?

smg93

Brady hands down. He led us to three superbowl's which changed the Patriots from being the Patsies to a team to be reckoned with year in year out. Yes, we didn't win the SB last year because of a lack of a running game but TB still led us to the playoffs.

How quickly people forget that just getting to the playoffs was considered a great accomplishment in the days of Hannah, Grogan, Haynes, etc. Now, all we talk about was how disappointing it was to lose to Denver in the second round of the playoffs.

MoLewisrocks

If Bledsoe were still behind Center Hannah would win hands down.

And as great as our HC and ownership are, if Bledsoe were still behind Center Belichick could just as easily be coaching or coordinating elsewhere. And in the wake of the new CBA and given our inabliity to win a championship while paying massive debt service for a new state of the art stadium, the Krafts could easily be shopping the franchise in the $700M range even as we speak.

It's Brady hands down.

RayClay

I'm not going to win this argument with the "world was created in 2001" crowd, but I will say Hannah was the single most important player on some very good teams.

It's apples and oranges. When your running game falls apart, your QB play suffers, (see last year at Denver).

Conversely when your QB is a fairy, (Eason), You won't beat the top teams.

I will say that anyone who actually was a Pats fan in the 70's knows that Hannah was quite a bit more than just a good Offensive guard.

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the taildragger

I'm also a history buff. If it were up to me, we'd expand this "greatest player" debate back to the 19th century.

Hannah was the best guard in the league...one could even argue he was the most dominant O-lineman ever. It didn't hurt to have Gray on that line for a while either...I wonder what we could do with that line today?!

but the fact that Hannah was great at his position does not make him more valuable than a great QB. THAT'S NOT A KNOCK ON HANNAH.

I think we're looking at the question a little differently, but I think we agree that a great QB is more valuable to a team than a great guard???

If not, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

D-cleater

We are blaming the loss to Denver on lack of a running game?

Thats just as ridiculous as you defending your argument by suggesting over and over that anyone who disagrees with you wasn't a fan before 2001.

" Gee, I'm such a long time fan, I say Plunkett was the best player ever!!! yeah, thats it ! "