Originally Posted by DaBruinz

I posted this on the Globe message board after reading that almost 39% of past fans no long believe in BB and Pioli.

I have to say that I am truly perplexed. Almost 39%% of the "FANS" of this team have lost faith in BB and Pioli? Did I miss us winning 3 SBs in the last 5 years?

Oh, wait, I get it. People are upset because of Willie, Adam ,and David going. Those 3 took the money and ran. Can't blame them. In each case, they got over-paid. Willie, You were great as a Patriots, but at 34, you aren't worth 4 mill a year. Adam, you were one of the most clutch in history, but stop having your father lie about the fact that you wanted to stay. You didn't. You wanted to kick in warm weather or a dome so you could increase the length of your career. Especially when it was becoming obvious that the Patriots were trying to go for it more on the opponents 30-35 yard line. Its also been 3 years since you made a 50 yarder and your kicks aren't getting into the endzone enough. Its too bad you just kissed a lifetime of endorsements goodbye. I hope it was worth sitting at home every February.

As for David, 5 mill a year for a guy who hasn't ever had more than 60 catches, even when he was the primary receiver for 6 straight weeks at one point Sorry, but you aren't a #1 receiver. You're a #2 and you should have been happy with that. But reality is that it was about the money. And the Titans treated you right. Can't fault you for that.

The off-season is about transition. Players come and players go. We have to deal with it. But, I will tell you right now, that I would rather let those 3 walk than keep them and face the almost certain losses of Seymour, Branch, and Koppen (provided he returns to form), to free agency in 2007.

I am sure that some surats are going to beat the WRONG BOGUS drum, but what WRONG hasn't mention is that his AGENT is the one who was feeding him all the info on David Givens. Why? Because David and Wrong Bogus (Ron Borges for those of you who haven't figured it out) share the same Agent. That should put a different perspective on things. Especially in light of Wrong's constant attack on BB about the fact that BB's agent and Adam's former agent both worked for Neil Cornich.

I am also sure that some surats are going to try and point to last off-season and last year and how the Pats played as signs that the bandwagon is breaking down. The most common rants are that BB messed up in the off-season getting Beisel, Brown, and Starks. I think that the only mistake that BB made was not knowing the phsyical health of Ted Johnson. Ted Johnson retiring right before training camp was probably the single biggest blow to BB's plan last year. That forced 2 players to the ILB position who had never played there before in Brown and Beisel. Beisel was signed as a project. To try and develop another Bruschi like player who could take over for Tedy when he finally decides to retire. Brown was signed as back-up or, at worst, to play opposite Ted Johnson.

Then, a lot of things started happening. Ryan Claridge, who looked very promising in camp, went down to injury. Mike Vrabel was injured in camp and basically missed his trianing for the ILB position. Stephen Neal looks like his shoulder wasn't healthy coming out of camp. Guss Scott and James Sanders weren't healthy coming out of camp. Jarvis Green's shoulder was banged up coming out of camp as well.

After coming out of camp with 10 DBs, the Pats lost 6 of those 10 to the IR.( Harrison, G. Scott, C. Scott, R. Gay, Duane Starks, and Ty Poole) by week 8. Wilfork wasn't playing well. Seymour missed some big games due to injury. Beisel and Brown showed that they hadn't picked up enough of the defense to be effective. Duane Starks played poorly because of a bum shoulder. Eugene Wilson was trying too hard to cover the deficiencies in the secondary as the "VET" back there.

I mean, seriously people, at one point, the Patriots had 4 defensive starters out (Ty Poole, Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, and Rodney Harrison). And that doesn't include not having Ted Johnson in there. That is a LOT for a defense and a team to over-come.

It wasn't until players started getting "healthy," that things started changing. Bruschi returned. Seymour returned. Vrabel was healthy enough to move inside. Ellis Hobbs stepped up. Wilfork changed his technique and was playing significantly better. Wilson stopped pressing and then the late addition of Hawkins helped solidify the defense for the last 5 games.

You can't fault BB for not knowing the future. There is no way he could have known that Light, Koppen, and Harrison would be lost for the year to catastrophic injuries. There is no way he could have know that they'd lose C. Scott, Starks, Poole, G. Scott and Randall Gay to injuries by week 9. Having that many injuries that take away that many players from one position would make it hard for ANY coach. And please, no one knows that if they had kept Ty Law that he would have been healthy all year.

When people stop and take a step back and look at REALITY, they will see that, in the era of the salary cap, we can't keep our favorite players their entire career unless they want to stay for a reasonable price. Its why I don't expect we'll ever see Tedy Bruschi go through this. Its why I don't see Tom Brady ever going through this. For all the other players, they will have to make a choice. Will it be to stick it out and earn the hearts of some of the greatest fans on the earth while making a modest football income and be part of Patriot Lore, or will it be to get as much money as they can and kiss the lifetime of endorsements and love from the fans goodbye.

BB and Pioli have done everything they can to earn our faith. A bump in the road because of catastrophic injuries and the loss of some free agents shouldn't cause us to lose that faith. If it does, the we weren't ever truly fans. We were bandwagoners. And we don't deserve the gift of 3 SB CHAMPIONSHIPS that the Pats, with BB and Pioli at the helm, have given us.

Originally Posted by mgteich

2) I think Caldwell is a better prospect than Andre Davis (for less money). As Davis and Terrell last year, Caldwell could step to be a #2 or #3, or not; he's certainly worth his pay as a #4. I agree, and I like his chance a hell of a lot more than I liked Terrell's last year.

3) I was glad to see Chad Scott, Troy Brown, Evans and Neal re-sign to be added to Don Davis, Hawkins, Poteat and Tucker. The ERFA's will all be back. At least a couple will be contributers out of: Childress, Gay, Scott, Mruc and Yates. Add Big Britt to that list, I got a weeeeird feeling about him. That's 13 total that will are signed will be re-signed, and we still don't know about Stone or Flutie. Y'know... you see a lot of 'nobodys' named on the KFFL Hotwire, but I've yet to see Stone's name on it. How's that testing free agency going, has he visited anyone? Loved him on STs, would be nice to have back.

5) We may not go for it on 4th down and 2 at the 40 this year, or punt! We may actually see a 50 yarder from a patriot kicker this year. Has it really been three years, or does it just seem that long? Has it been that long?

7) Yes, we've completed a couple of weeks of free agency, and we have three major holes to fill, and six minor ones, and we have only about $18M left of cap money and about 9 or 10 draft picks. The sky is falling! the sky is falling!

Originally Posted by F.B.N.

That's a poll that can easily be skewed...let's face it.

A poll from readership who just read negative articles all the time?

Just because we are well informed here(better anyways), I would say that if i only read the newspaper chances are good I would be skeptical also.

Originally Posted by PatsSteve1

78% of people who vote in pole's don't know what thier voting on.

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

I posted this on the Globe message board after reading that almost 39% of past fans no long believe in BB and Pioli.

I have to say that I am truly perplexed. Almost 39%% of the "FANS" of this team have lost faith in BB and Pioli? Did I miss us winning 3 SBs in the last 5 years?

Oh, wait, I get it. People are upset because of Willie, Adam ,and David going. Those 3 took the money and ran. Can't blame them. In each case, they got over-paid. Willie, You were great as a Patriots, but at 34, you aren't worth 4 mill a year. Adam, you were one of the most clutch in history, but stop having your father lie about the fact that you wanted to stay. You didn't. You wanted to kick in warm weather or a dome so you could increase the length of your career. Especially when it was becoming obvious that the Patriots were trying to go for it more on the opponents 30-35 yard line. Its also been 3 years since you made a 50 yarder and your kicks aren't getting into the endzone enough. Its too bad you just kissed a lifetime of endorsements goodbye. I hope it was worth sitting at home every February.

As for David, 5 mill a year for a guy who hasn't ever had more than 60 catches, even when he was the primary receiver for 6 straight weeks at one point Sorry, but you aren't a #1 receiver. You're a #2 and you should have been happy with that. But reality is that it was about the money. And the Titans treated you right. Can't fault you for that.

The off-season is about transition. Players come and players go. We have to deal with it. But, I will tell you right now, that I would rather let those 3 walk than keep them and face the almost certain losses of Seymour, Branch, and Koppen (provided he returns to form), to free agency in 2007.

I am sure that some surats are going to beat the WRONG BOGUS drum, but what WRONG hasn't mention is that his AGENT is the one who was feeding him all the info on David Givens. Why? Because David and Wrong Bogus (Ron Borges for those of you who haven't figured it out) share the same Agent. That should put a different perspective on things. Especially in light of Wrong's constant attack on BB about the fact that BB's agent and Adam's former agent both worked for Neil Cornich.

I am also sure that some surats are going to try and point to last off-season and last year and how the Pats played as signs that the bandwagon is breaking down. The most common rants are that BB messed up in the off-season getting Beisel, Brown, and Starks. I think that the only mistake that BB made was not knowing the phsyical health of Ted Johnson. Ted Johnson retiring right before training camp was probably the single biggest blow to BB's plan last year. That forced 2 players to the ILB position who had never played there before in Brown and Beisel. Beisel was signed as a project. To try and develop another Bruschi like player who could take over for Tedy when he finally decides to retire. Brown was signed as back-up or, at worst, to play opposite Ted Johnson.

Then, a lot of things started happening. Ryan Claridge, who looked very promising in camp, went down to injury. Mike Vrabel was injured in camp and basically missed his trianing for the ILB position. Stephen Neal looks like his shoulder wasn't healthy coming out of camp. Guss Scott and James Sanders weren't healthy coming out of camp. Jarvis Green's shoulder was banged up coming out of camp as well.

After coming out of camp with 10 DBs, the Pats lost 6 of those 10 to the IR.( Harrison, G. Scott, C. Scott, R. Gay, Duane Starks, and Ty Poole) by week 8. Wilfork wasn't playing well. Seymour missed some big games due to injury. Beisel and Brown showed that they hadn't picked up enough of the defense to be effective. Duane Starks played poorly because of a bum shoulder. Eugene Wilson was trying too hard to cover the deficiencies in the secondary as the "VET" back there.

I mean, seriously people, at one point, the Patriots had 4 defensive starters out (Ty Poole, Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, and Rodney Harrison). And that doesn't include not having Ted Johnson in there. That is a LOT for a defense and a team to over-come.

It wasn't until players started getting "healthy," that things started changing. Bruschi returned. Seymour returned. Vrabel was healthy enough to move inside. Ellis Hobbs stepped up. Wilfork changed his technique and was playing significantly better. Wilson stopped pressing and then the late addition of Hawkins helped solidify the defense for the last 5 games.

You can't fault BB for not knowing the future. There is no way he could have known that Light, Koppen, and Harrison would be lost for the year to catastrophic injuries. There is no way he could have know that they'd lose C. Scott, Starks, Poole, G. Scott and Randall Gay to injuries by week 9. Having that many injuries that take away that many players from one position would make it hard for ANY coach. And please, no one knows that if they had kept Ty Law that he would have been healthy all year.

When people stop and take a step back and look at REALITY, they will see that, in the era of the salary cap, we can't keep our favorite players their entire career unless they want to stay for a reasonable price. Its why I don't expect we'll ever see Tedy Bruschi go through this. Its why I don't see Tom Brady ever going through this. For all the other players, they will have to make a choice. Will it be to stick it out and earn the hearts of some of the greatest fans on the earth while making a modest football income and be part of Patriot Lore, or will it be to get as much money as they can and kiss the lifetime of endorsements and love from the fans goodbye.

BB and Pioli have done everything they can to earn our faith. A bump in the road because of catastrophic injuries and the loss of some free agents shouldn't cause us to lose that faith. If it does, the we weren't ever truly fans. We were bandwagoners. And we don't deserve the gift of 3 SB CHAMPIONSHIPS that the Pats, with BB and Pioli at the helm, have given us.

Originally Posted by PATSNUTme

I wasn't polled.

Anybody here get polled? Is it just he online PFW people? All subscribers? Just those who check in to the almost worthless "official" site, which I do daily? And, how many total votes?

Just a few of the questions in this meanless,IMO, poll. NEST did a similar poll last week and 75% trusted the FO. So if there were 4 voters, 3 trusted and 1 didn't.