tanked_as_usual

I love the blowing kisses part of an argument

PatsFanSince74

OK, Deus, I've followed much of the debate and I take and grant your main points.

So, what is your view, if indeed the odds are against adding impact FA's at this stage and if (my addition) it is unlikely that Rookies will have the kind of year-one impact at key positions that we need?

If we are left with the likelihood of BB having to "Coach Up" essentially the same team as last year, is it possible that these players will be able to improve enough to make a more meaningful run against what might be a tougher schedule (I don't assume that the schedule will be tougher, but it is certainly the contemporary CW) this year? A "more meaningful run" would be defined as winning the Division again, but having a realistic chance of going deeper in the Playoffs.

If the answer is "No" or "It's possible but not likely," then how do you, at what is admittedly an early stage, see the Pats prospects in 2010?

My view is and has been that it's just too early to tell and I'm willing to see how things unfold over the next few months, both for the Pats and others, but you've made a convincing argument that "what you see is what you get," so I'm (sincerely) wondering "what you think."

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It is what it is. It wasn't what it wasn't.

eom

this thread is ridiculous.

muzz

Tate and Crable.

Why didn't ya say so......

Championship!!

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I guess drafting BUMS like "I never play cuz I suck" Wheatley,"see the back of my Jersey as I get burned...AGAIN" Wilhiite, and "maybe my knee will let me play by my 4th year" Tate, wasn't good enough,we've got a guy that is giving Matt Millen a run for his $ by drafting a mediocre special teams player and giving him 1st Rd. cake.
Pass rush? Uneccessary when you have 72 CBS playing.
Lbs? What for, we have no pass rush, they gonna chuck it at our lousy CBS...all 72 of them bums

Deus Irae

Ok, my $.02:

Most of what this team will ultimately be able to do will rest upon the health and play of Brady. As bad a year as Belichick had last year (and don't let the homers fool you, because BB sucked in all football-related phases of his job last season), the Patriots were a healthy Welker, a consistent Brady, and a traded DE away from being legitimate Super Bowl contenders. When Brady is Brady, he's just that good.

I think that people tend to favor the positives with their own teams and drum up the negatives with other teams. For example, Patriots fans will pimp Chung, even though he barely saw the field last season, but they'll denigrate Davis and Smith down in Miami. To my way of thinking, this is a mistake. For example, I expect Vollmer to establish himself as a quality OT this season and to be the best of last year's draft picks again, and I expect Butler to improve, although he's got a long way to go and people over-hyped his performance last year. I do not see Chung, Butler, McKenzie and company becoming dominant players this season. If the only significant additions to the team are tight ends, this team will have the same problems as last season, with Brady not having Welker for a portion of the season. I expect the team to draft a DE with either the first or second pick, but rookie D-linemen often struggle a lot, as Mr. Jackson demonstrated in K.C.

That's a somewhat longer version of "anything's possible, but Brady would have to play out of his mind in the playoffs for the team to have a real chance".

Well, if you figure that one draft pick will flash as a starter, Vollmer will improve, Butler will improve enough to be at least a serviceable CB2, and that one FA signing will have positive impact, and you combine that with a healthy Brady and the return of Welker at 90%+, I'd expect that the team will be above average for the first portion of the season, and then will improve from that as Welker gets back into the offense.

Like you, I think it's far too early to tell but, at this stage, I don't see this team being capable of running the table in the playoffs, and I'm not sold on them beating out the Jets for the division. I do, however, expect my position on this to change for the better, since I expect Belichick will make more quality moves than he has over the past 2 seasons.

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"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

PatsFanSince74

Thanks for stepping up, Deus.

I find little with which to disagree in your assessment, especially "it's far too early to tell."

I think I'm a lot easier on Belichick v.2009 than you are. He was dealing with a plethora of moving pieces, including a rebuilding secondary and what had to be a transformed locker-room with the losses of Brewski, Vrabel, Seymour and Rodney. So, I'm cutting him some slack (and still think he was right to go for it in Indy).

I make the latter point because I completely agree with you that Brady is the key. He should be at 95+% of his former self (allowing for two years of time and gravity) from day one this year. So, I think that Belichick and Brady in the past have proven that they can make the whole greater than the sum of its parts, and I anticipate their doing so again this year.

I think that Wes at 90+% is a wish rather than a certainty, given the toll of his injury on WR's who make a living planting and cutting. I see the O Line as a big plus and completely agree on Vollmer. We also agree on the muted impact of rookie D Linemen, but I too hope they make a move in the draft in that direction. In addition, I was amazed in the past at Piolichick's ability to turn lead into gold in the offseason and am not giving up on that fantasy, but we do miss the Pioli part of that equation.

So, in some sense, I guess I agree with the, presumably cynical, topic of this thread to some degree. I think that Brady and Belichick together have the capacity to get a lot more out of a team than any other qb/hc tandem in the NFL. Whether that means another trophy or even a Division Title, well, it's way too early to tell.

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It is what it is. It wasn't what it wasn't.