BelichickFan

I'm fine with LT, LG, C with the obvious names.

If Neal leaves we need a RG as Hochstein is the perfect backup. We also need a RT unless they're sold on Kaczur. I see a first or second round OT and a mid round OG/C who can compete at Guard and possibly replace Koppen if he leaves after next year.

Ochmed Jones

There is no doubt in my mind that Mankins progressed very nicely during the season. While I don't have access to the Pats OL grades, I'd be willing to bet that Mankins was grading out in the mid to high 70s by season end.
Kazcur I didn't see enough of to judge if he was improving.

And while I beleive that both Mankins and Kazcur will come back stronger next year, I really only see Mankins taking a big jump in improvement for 06.

Which still leaves us needing an upgrade on the right side of the line, if Light comes back OK.

DaBruinz

Fanfrom1960 -
Where abouts do you live on the west coast? There are a few fan clubs out here, particularly a very active one here in Orange County, California.

As for Mankins and Kaczur progressing, yes, they both did. In fact, I would say that Kaczur played better than Matt Light did in Light's rookie year.

ilduce06410

that line is somewhere around OK for pass protection, and less than Ok for run blocking. it is not what you'd call a "pretty good" line. it is not outstanding. it is not excellent.
mankins and kaczur did get better as the season progressed. they'd have done better if they'd had an experienced center to show them. i like them both, but...
how many of those O-line players are considered to be among the top 30 O-linemen in the conference? how many are close to the pro bowl? IMO if you've got a top QB you not only want to protect him, you want him to be confident in what he does back there.
i like mankins, neal, & koppen. i think kaczur will make an ok RT. but other than mankins, they're never gonna be Outstanding, Pro-Bowl players. we have to upgrade at RG, we need a better C. we've got aa lotta depth, but we need Excellent starters. we don't got them.
how many sacks did brady have, 33? how many times knocked down, maybe 60 more? that's 93 times hit out of 520 attempts. it's too many by half, and cutting it down to 40 times a SEASON is what montana, aikman, marino got.
gotta have an EXCELLENT O-line.

texpat

OK, we all agree with that. But in a salary cap world, where are you gonna cut in order to pay Pro-Bowl lineman, the DL, LB's, K?

Using the draft is a hit/miss proposition, even in the early rounds (ex: Tony Mandarich - 2nd pick) and even if you hit early, it costs to pay those early picks. If you try the FA market, you will overpay in most cases and if a lineman is good enough, his team will put the franchise tag on them to keep them.

I think BB & DS have worked wonders with average to above average linemen working as a unit and this has allowed them to pay for defense, JMO. I don't think out OL is top quality, but I bet the 18 teams that don't make the playoffs every year would love to have the quality that we have.

FreeTedWilliams

Koppen is a solid center and his Brady's best friend (nuff said)
Light has been the starting left tackle for 3 Superbowl Championships teams (nuff said)
I love Mankins and thought he did well. He also was the starter from day one, so you can not compare him to Kazur. Kazur is a guard/tackle and throwing him in to Left Tackle next to a Rookie Left Guard, I thought he did the best he could. Look for him to challenge Neal for the starting RG next year.
Neal has been solid, Ashworth, Gorin et al have been servicable. I like Hockstien coming off the bench, and I think he does a great job blocking on the goal line from the Fullback position. Hockstien can back up both guards and the center and gives the Pats alot of flexability.

SO I would be fine with:
LT Light
LG Mankins
C Koppen
RG Kazur
RT Ashworth

with Hockstien backing up Center and Guard, and Gorin backing up the Tackles.

If BB thinks he can upgrade RT in the draft/free agency, that would be fine, but I can easily live with the guys we have.

The problem last year is that we lost our starting Left Tackle and our starting Center to injury. Ask any HC in the NFL if he thinks he could have made the playoffs losing those two players. The Pats did a great job of overcoming these injuries, but do not take Light lightly, he is a great player, and his loss was a huge blow for the Pats both for his play and his leadership. Watch any of the 3GTG and see Light in the locker room.

__________________
The Jets look like a Super Bowl contender right now about as much as Rosie O’Donnell looks like a threat for the Miss America crown. -NY Post 12/19/2011


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Fanfrom1960

SF Bay Area, Silicon Valley.

ilduce06410

that's the $90 million question.
i hear my brothers---this is essentially a lne that's been good enough to win 3 SBs. can't be much broke there.
but brady's taking 90-100 licks a year, in 16 games. we've all seen him get absolutely clobbered on some passes where he stood in the pocket to get the pass away. rules of chance say he should have gotten knocked out for at least 6 games already. we're overdue on him.
texpat i'm an old houston (north side, 5th ward) boy, where are you?
we're goona have $9million locked un a 5-man receiver crew next year. watson, graham, fauria, the twig, givens. i guess that's ok.
we'll have about $4m going out for RBs.
our top four DLs will run us about $8m.
our top 5 LBs will cost $13m.
the top 5 DBs will run around $5 mil.
kickers around $4m.
poole has GOT to go. so does starks. that frees up $4million that doesn't even appear above, basically dead money.
i love givens but team can't afford to pay him more than what he's making.
get rid of poole and starks and put it into another O-line starter. neal is a hell of a bargain but it would be nice to have a pro bowler there.
that's about my best figgerin'

AzPatsFan

There are some people who just naturally like ot fight the last war. Like most generals. This also applies to draftniks.

The Offensive line for the Patriots for the last few years had two high draft picks, one of whom was perpetually injured, and a buch of nobody graduates of the Dante post graduate School for Offensive linemen. Most students were later draft picks, 4-7th rounders or UDFA, but hard nosed tough guys. We won several Superbowls with these guys.

Then BB cut ties with the perpetually injured, and drafted a couple of O-linemen on the first day of the Draft, last year. Two of the Dante School greaduates are maturing and are starting to receive occasional Pro-bowl notice.

Naturally, we now get draftniks who want to say this very young developing line stinks, and we need to invest a first rounder in some fat guard.

RIGHT!!!

fisticuffs

No Tex Pat, I won't rip you. I'm glad you responded to my comment. What I mean is, even if Neal returns, we still need to upgrade at tackle and guard. Whether that comes from free Agency, I likely doubt because the Pats don't spend lots of money on lineman. I prefer the draft. I guess it sounds kind of funny that I added that we should get another rookie to start on the O-Line, even though we had two starting last year which allowed Brady to get smacked around. The point is, if there is a quality lineman according to their "draft grade" at #21, I wouldn't think twice about it. Two reasons why the Pats couldn't get back to the superbowl: no running game which allowed teams to tee off on Brady. And this notion that rookies don't step in right away and do well isn't always true. Steve Hutchenson, Chris Samuels, Jon Janson, Levi Jones (I don't think he started his rookie year) Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace, Tarik Glenn, Walter Jones, are just a few that were drafted and have stayed with their original teams. Yes, they struggle here and there but would you want to build your team through street free agents or the Draft? Building a "fortress" around Brady and will make him, Watson, Grahem, Branch and Dillon better players!