BelichickFan

Givens would take less per year for a 4-5 year deal. There will definitely be bidders to give him a solid long term deal and one of them easily could trade a third round pick to get that right.

Alk

I'm sorry but I gotta disagree. We have alot more to worry about than signing Neal and Ashworth. This team is getting old in certain areas and they need to be addressed now. We would probably be overpaying Givens by about $4 million. That $4 million would go a long way in making our LB corps alot younger and getting a RB for the future if not present.

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BelichickFan

Plus you can trade a franchised guy and the new team can get out of the franchise amount by agreeing to a new long term contract with the player. Just like what happened with Peerless Price and Tebucky Jones.

Brady'sButtBoy

I think Givens is being over-valued by the Pats fans, it's natural - we love our players the best and think they are better than players on other teams. But it is very difficult to imagine Givens getting $6mil/yr from anyone, let alone the Pats. Plus, Givens' limited trade value is weakened by being viewed as product of the Pat's system and as an overachiever. Even if he were signed to a reasonable $3mil/yr x 3 yr contract he'd likely only fetch a second rounder at the very best.

Givens is tough, versatile and a high effort guy but will never be a number one and thus should never get that kind of money. Pats offer him $2.2/yr max, I bet...

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hwc

We must be looking at different rosters. Not counting assorted practice squad and NFL Europe type guys who have never played a down, here's where we stand.

A) Offensive Line: We have exactly two guards under contract: Mankins and Hochstein. I don't think that's enough.

B) Wide Receiver: We have two wide receivers under contract - Branch and Bethel. We need to acquire at least three NFL caliber wide receivers. If you pay Givens franchise tag money, how do you afford the other two?

C) Cornerback: Assuming that Poole and Stark get cut for cap purposes, we have two CBs under contract: Samuel and Hobbs. We can't even put a nickle package on the field right now.

D) Safety: Not counting Rodney Harrison, we have two safeties under contract - Wilson and Sanders.

E) Kicker: We don't have a placekicker on the roster. I think everyone would agree that we probably need one to start the season.

So we need to sign 1 kicker, 2 offensive linemen, 3 wide receivers, and 5 defensive backs capable of making the 53 man roster. We are currently $3 million over the cap. Maybe my math is wrong, but I don't see $5 million in the kitty for a #2 wide receiver.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the Pats are in dire cap trouble. Pioli is good at what he does and we'll free up cap room as needed. But, I don't see a lot of cap money in the budget for luxuries like a $5 million #2 wide receiver.

Bill's Girl

I thought that is how it worked, but I did not know the part about giving two first rounders! Thanks for the 411!

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Box_O_Rocks

It worked for Oakland with Charles Woodson! Are you an Al Davis standing under the same sun?

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Patriot Games

Rackers
Phil Dawson
Joe Nedney
Todd Peterson
Vanderjerk
Stover
Shane Graham
Nate Kaeding
Jeff Wilkins
John Hall
Matt Bryant
Jay Feeley
Olindo Mare
Lindell
Jeff Reed
Tynes

Which one of these kickers with a better FG % than Vinatieri would you want to line up for a 47 yarder with the game on the line in the playoffs more than Vinatieri?

If your answer is anything other than "none of the above" you are an idiot. Statistics for kickers need to be looked at more closely than simply reciting a kicker's ranking. At least 9 of those kickers make the majority of their kicks indoors or in nice weather. Also, Vinatieri only had 17 ATTEMPTS under 40 yards. Most of those kickers had many more opportunities in that range to pad their %. He missed 5 FG's all year and 2 of those were from over 50 yards.

You don't replace kickers "cheap" if you want to go far in the playoffs.

Replacing Vinatieri would be much more difficult than replacing Givens.

Digger44

bingo husker. What team would give up $6 mil + 2 #1 picks for Givens? There is no way he is worth that. This whole thread is based on the idea that the draft picks can be negotiated. They cannot. A team must give up 2 #1 picks. That aint happening.

mcsully

There is another angle people are not looking with this discussion.. The facts are Givens is one of the Top WR in the free agent market (next to Wayne). I think we can agree on that.. Can we also agree that there is going to be a lot of competition for his services.. Maybe he won't get 4 or 5 million but he'll get a nice bonus..
IMHO I believe the jets, Dolphins and brown will want him.. Maybe they won't but just for purpose sake they do. This is the time the Pats should play Poker with other teams.. See who blinks first.. Slap the Franchise tag on him. Work the phones until the end of the draft (seeing if you can acquire more picks or move up from the #1 pick). If something works , you get real value for him.
If all else fails, who says you can't remove the Franchise Tag from him..
Atleast you tried..

Then again, he might be back for a home town discount but that is for another thread..