Memo to Pats fans - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

supafly · 12-02-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farn

I hear you, and understand exactly what you are saying.

Here's the problem : 60 wins makes for a very good record for a bball team. You think the Bulls team that won 70+ would've been satisfied with the 60 wins ?

This team was going to be better than 11-5 by most all accounts (not just the homer fans).

I accept the fact that this team, like the one in 06, is a superior team that can beat almost all the other NFL teams... but is unlikely to beat the very, very good teams in January - like the Colts and the Saints. I thought they were a 13-3 team before the season started and I didn't expect zero points scored in the 2nd halves of DEN or NYJ.

Yes, 11-5 is better than consistently sucking like the Browns. But you don't hang banners for 11-5. I'm not looking to make friends with the Pats. I just want them to win. 11-5 is winning, but not the kind of winning that I originally expected for this particular group.

Nice post, Farn. This pretty much sums it up for me too, although I am extremely grateful for the ability to compete every yr, and have said so many times.

There are indeed some here who are wine and cheesers, some who "didn't see any competition" for our team from early in September, and I think those are the ones who jmt is talking to. You simply cannot "assume" a great yr based on past performances. When you win 11 or 12 games in a season, it is still quite an achievement--of course. I think we all are somewhat disappointed that our defense got smoked in 2 out of the last 3 games, and that we don't seem to be putting fear into many teams anymore.

I will always be happy with a playoff appearance, I am however disappointed with the lack of halftime adjustments, repeated mistakes, poor pass rush, and to a certain extent--being out coached. Those attributes do not represent Bill Belichick coached teams as far as I am concerned. I am probably very much in the minority here, but I actually felt last yr's team had more heart, to a certain extent. They seemed to overcome the challenges set forth by TB's injury/other injuries. However, it is very true that last yr's schedule was much easier too--so it could very well be a poor comparison. I think I am somewhat frusterated that this yr's team has yet to 'outsmart' the other guys as often as I had hoped. It seemed that we were used to always being better prepared, make better adjustments/schemes, etc. That's what's disappointing me the most, to be honest.

I am looking forward to trying to secure the #2 seed, get a first rd bye, and see Gillette stadium rocking for the first game. First, we need to play a desperate MIA team on a shortened week, and if they win, appreciate what an incredible challenge that was for them.

At any rate, great points by farn and jmt.

***Nikolai*** · 12-02-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzz

Everyone keeps bringing up the Steelers and the Giants teams that were struggling and came back to win it all, but they ALL keep forgetting to mention that those teams had a KICKASS DEFENSE.

Would that be the same 07 Giants defense that gave up 80 points in the first two games of the year?

The point in conjuring the spirit of the 07 Giants was that they didn't turn on until Week 18. So this hyperbole about the Pats being out of it after a Week 12 loss is asinine.

***muzz*** · 12-02-2009, 09:23 PM

If you are gonna sit there and even intimate that the Giants D line wasn't worlds ahead of this one you need serious help, and your talking the first 2 weeks of the entire year, NOT in week 11.

What Hyperbole do you speak of?

Sivy · 12-02-2009, 09:25 PM

I have a feeling the patriots will win the super bowl this year.

supafly · 12-02-2009, 09:27 PM

Yeah, I too, fail to see the 07 Giants comparison as they played very well down the stretch, won 10-11 road games in a row, and held an 11 pt lead over us with 1/2 a quarter to play in the last regular season game.

What they did in the first 2 games is irrelevant, IMHO.

***Nikolai*** · 12-02-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzz

If you are gonna sit there and even intimate that the Giants D line wasn't worlds ahead of this one you need serious help, and your talking the first 2 weeks of the entire year, NOT in week 11.

Perhaps some people need a history lesson. Week 12 of the 07 Giants season was a 41-17 loss against Minnesota AT HOME at the hands of Tavaris ******* Jackson.

The Giants got hot AFTER the regular season and that's all there is to it. By your logic, after Week 12, the Giants should have packed up the D-line and O-line and gone home for the year.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/200711...vikings@giants

Granted, Eli played a large part, but 41-17 is 41-17.

Quote:

What Hyperbole do you speak of?

All the crap that comes spewing out whenever the Pats lose about how bad the team is blah blah blah. Surely, you know all about that.

supafly · 12-02-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt57

Colts were absolutley getting run over on defense all year long the season they won the Super Bowl.

Absolutely true.

But on the other hand, if they play as well as I believe they are capable of playing, I think they have a pretty good shot.

You make a good point jmt, as all of the defensive rushing stats pointed to a sure-fire exit for the Colts that yr (06). No one else had ever won a SB when allowing a rushing game per average of what they did.

As much as I hate to go against the grain and respectfully point something else out, that Colt passing defense was lights out, as they set records for passing TD's allowed (IIRC). I believe that helped them mask their poor rush defense somewhat because their pass defense allowed single digit numbers.

In any case, your point is well noted and correct, I was just pointing out that they still held up in an important area of an otherwise poor defense.

***MassPats38*** · 12-02-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supafly

Yeah, I too, fail to see the 07 Giants comparison as they played very well down the stretch, won 10-11 road games in a row, and held an 11 pt lead over us with 1/2 a quarter to play in the last regular season game.

What they did in the first 2 games is irrelevant, IMHO.

You must have watched a different Giants team than I saw in 2007. They had a 6 game win streak that ended in October, and were pretty much one win, one loss through November and December. They also lost 41-17 to the Vikings on November 25th.

As for the game against the Pats, the Giants had a 12-point lead at the beginning of the 3rd and were up by 5 at the end of the third before losing the lead.

In short, the Giants were actually highly inconsistent down the stretch before figuring out how to win in the playoffs. Feel free to follow the link and update your history accordingly.

***muzz*** · 12-02-2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikolai

Perhaps some people need a history lesson. Week 12 of the 07 Giants season was a 41-17 loss against Minnesota AT HOME at the hands of Tavaris ******* Jackson. Do you still believe that the Giants' D was worlds ahead of the Pats at the same time in the season?

The Giants got hot AFTER the regular season and that's all there is to it. By your logic, after Week 12, the Giants should have packed up the D-line and O-line and gone home for the year.

NFL Game Center: Minnesota Vikings at New York Giants - 2007 Week 12

All the crap that comes spewing out whenever the Pats lose about how bad the team is blah blah blah. Surely, you know all about that.

You can do better than that can't you?
Eli threw FOUR picks that game, and THREE of them were Pick Six INTS

Jackson threw ONE TD and had 129 yds passing, 60 of those yards were on the TD to Sidney on the 2nd play of the game, the Vikes ran 39 times for 127 yds and a 3.26 Avg.

I guess you missed Mondays game huh?
How about week 2 against the VAUNTED Jets?
How about that Denver game?
Miss the Clayton drop?
See the 2nd 1/2 of the Colts game?

Next time your looking to give lessons, get the right lesson lined up.

Bah.......

SeauOUCH · 12-02-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt57

Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of room for improvement. Plenty of things that need to be fixed this year. Some other things that need to be addressed in the offseason. And many people have brought up some very good points about the coordinators, lack of creativity/predictability in play calling, lack of pass rush, etc. I agree with the vast majority of those assessments.

It's the 'this team stinks', 'the season is over', these are the biggest under achievers ever', etc., that leaves me shaking my head. I live outside New England and one of the biggest things thrown in my face is 'bandwagon fans', 'cokcy and arrogant fans', etc. Even though all that is easily refuted, when I see Pats fans talking that way, it makes me wonder if the fanbase as a whole may indeed be spoiled and delusional.

Coming into this year I figured 12-4 and I still think the same thing. I felt like 16-0 is something that happens once every thirty years, and that may have raised a certain portion of fans expectations so high that they feel shortchanged with anything more than one or two losses in a season. On top of that they honestly expect that every single year.

Those are excellent aspirations, but they're also unrealistic expectations in my opinion. Of course I aspire for this team to be more than 11-5, but to freak out over any and every loss seems absurd to me.

Maybe the preseason hype by the media left some with such high expectations that there was no place to go but down.

These chicken littles remind me of my girlfriend, she really started getting into football during the '07 season & is so spoiled by that year that every loss is mind blowing to her. When your only reference point is a perfect season when we had the best offense of all time you are bound to be disappointed.

People forget that even in our Super Bowl winning years we had a clunker now & then, on '03 we got DESTROYED by Pitt in the regular season & returned the favor in the playoffs.

This team has flaws but I'll take 11+ wins every single year & the chance to compete in the playoffs. Only the Colts have been as consistantly good as us over such a long period of time ( not counting the playoffs

) Its pretty rare for any team to stay competitive year after year for such a long stretch so ENJOY IT while you can, it wont last forever.