I hope the Pats enjoy the bye because the next 4 games define the season - Page 11 - New England Patriots Forums

coltsfan · 10-29-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Try reading your paragraph about Allen v. Freeney again. It may be the lamest attempt to prop up a player that any visitor to this board has ever made.

Why? Anyone who watched that game saw that Allen got a bunch of cheap sacks bc Rogers holds on to the ball too long trying to make plays. It's the same reason that a JAG like Antwan Odom got a bunch of sacks against him. So Allen had a worse game than Odom, what's your point?

Freeney's game against Arizona was more impactful. A better offense, on the road, actually facing double teams considering he's not lined up next to Kevin Williams. They were supposedly going to beat us, not a chance.

***Joker*** · 10-29-2009, 11:11 PM

this is a <1 per cent argument...since less than one per cent of the members here could care about Freeney,Allen, their sack stats or any other pom pom waving stat you geeks want to dredge up.We already have enough of our own "stat" monsters to wade through.

***Deus Irae*** · 10-29-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltsfan

Why? Anyone who watched that game saw that Allen got a bunch of cheap sacks bc Rogers holds on to the ball too long trying to make plays. It's the same reason that a JAG like Antwan Odom got a bunch of sacks against him. So Allen had a worse game than Odom, what's your point?

Freeney's game against Arizona was more impactful. A better offense, on the road, actually facing double teams considering he's not lined up next to Kevin Williams. They were supposedly going to beat us, not a chance.

You made a claim about Freeney being the best since he came in the league and then you pointed to one game where Allen destroyed his opponent and offered it as some sort of proof. If you can't figure out why that's lame, I don't know how it can be made more obvious.

***Deus Irae*** · 10-29-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusty

ok well, let me try, to get our reputation back up to snuff.

Since Allen has entered the league in 2004, he has accumulated 65 Sacks, 19 Forced Fumbles, 1 Interception

Since 2004.. Freeney has accumulated 53.5 Sacks, 23 Forced Fumbles, 0 Interceptions

with that information, we can assume that Freeney causes a fumble (and for arguments sake, defense recovers that fumble for a turnover) nearly half the time he gets to the QB. Allen on the other hand, only causes a turnover 30% of the time. Turnovers are the single most important defensive stat, it gets the ball back into the offenses hand to get points on the board.

Freeney has not had the help of a solid Dline since he entered the league, until Mathis came along. So he was basically doing all the work, himself.

for the past 2 years, Allen has had the luxury of working next to two of the best DT's in the league, therefore, helping him get pressure, because he wont be doubled. every play.

When it comes to which player makes the largest impact on their respective teams, I dont even think thats a question, its Freeney, 10 fold. Indianapolis has never been known to have a great defense, and as mentioned before, horrible DT's his whole career.

With Freeney taking the double teams, it has given Mathis an opportunity to get pressure on the QB. So, Freeney just being on the line, improves our defense. Whereas, the Vikings LE hasnt gotten a single sack or FF this year... and I think thats the most important point in this argument, which player makes players around him better. Freeney has proven to do so with Mathis on the left, allowing him to get pressure from the left by taking up double teams. Allen, has shown what he can do solely, but he brings nothing to the table when it comes to making players around him play at a higher level.

Mathis is a better bookend than anyone Allen has played with.

Allen was stuck playing on the Chiefs, for crying out loud. The year after he left, that team set a record for fewest sacks in a season.

And using forced fumbles as proof of a superior pass rush? Pash rush is about forcing double teams and getting to, or very near the QB.

Come on, now. It's alright that Freeney isn't the best in the league at his job. Y'all should be used to dealing with that, since that same 'problem' has plagued your quarterback since around at least 2003, if not further back than that.

coltsfan · 10-29-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

You made a claim about Freeney being the best since he came in the league and then you pointed to one game where Allen destroyed his opponent and offered it as some sort of proof. If you can't figure out why that's lame, I don't know how it can be made more obvious.

Bc your only proof is stats, which I couldn't care less about. I care about impact, like you said in your last post, who forces double teams, etc. Allen doesn't get double teamed, Freeney gets doubled constantly. Allen's pass defense is mediocre, Freeney allows the Colts to get away with Jason David, Tim Jennings, and a bunch of rookies bc teams almost never take deep drops against us (or they risk the fate of Kurt Warner getting the crap knocked out of him for four quarters in his own stadium). I don't think my point can be any more clear than that. Freeney leads his team to the playoffs every year, has game changing plays that helped us clinch divisions, etc. Allen hasn't done that.

JSn · 10-29-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltsfan

Freeney leads his team to the playoffs every year..

Who keeps leading the Colts OUT of the playoffs after one game?

***Deus Irae*** · 10-30-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltsfan

Bc your only proof is stats, which I couldn't care less about. I care about impact, like you said in your last post, who forces double teams, etc. Allen doesn't get double teamed, Freeney gets doubled constantly. Allen's pass defense is mediocre, Freeney allows the Colts to get away with Jason David, Tim Jennings, and a bunch of rookies bc teams almost never take deep drops against us (or they risk the fate of Kurt Warner getting the crap knocked out of him for four quarters in his own stadium). I don't think my point can be any more clear than that. Freeney leads his team to the playoffs every year, has game changing plays that helped us clinch divisions, etc. Allen hasn't done that.

Ok, you must be a duplicate account from someone who's just screwing with the rest of us. This post is so ridiculous that even a Colts fan would be embarrassed to make it.

coltsfan · 10-30-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSn

Who keeps leading the Colts OUT of the playoffs after one game?

In 2008, it was Freeney being out with the Lis Franc, and the Chargers offense going through us like Swiss Cheese bc of it.

In other years, it's been bc our running game sucks and/or our DTs sucked.

patsfan-1982 · 10-30-2009, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltsfan

Bc your only proof is stats, which I couldn't care less about. I care about impact, like you said in your last post, who forces double teams, etc. Allen doesn't get double teamed, Freeney gets doubled constantly. Allen's pass defense is mediocre, Freeney allows the Colts to get away with Jason David, Tim Jennings, and a bunch of rookies bc teams almost never take deep drops against us (or they risk the fate of Kurt Warner getting the crap knocked out of him for four quarters in his own stadium). I don't think my point can be any more clear than that. Freeney leads his team to the playoffs every year, has game changing plays that helped us clinch divisions, etc. Allen hasn't done that.

i think every one on this bord and around the NFL will agree that freeney is a great passrusher

but he is not better then Jared Allen

since 2004 Jared Allen has 65 sack's will no one on he's team has had more then 8 sack's in any of he's season's

since 2004 freeney has 52.5 sack's

since 2004 Robert Mathis has 55 sack's

so how can he be better then allen when he is not even the best passrusher on he's own team

coltsfan · 10-30-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Ok, you must be a duplicate account from someone who's just screwing with the rest of us. This post is so ridiculous that even a Colts fan would be embarrassed to make it.

Lol, nothing is more embarrassing than your own quarterback refuting your thoughts in an article today.

Brady actually said it better than I did. Freeney gets to the QB quicker than anyone, in about 2 seconds or so. A slower player like Allen, it takes him longer. Freeney changes more game plans bc of it, you simply can't drop deep like you can against a guy like Allen. Hence, like I said, Jason David never being exposed when he was with the Colts.

There is a reason I said that Freeney has been more valuable than players even like Marvin Harrison or Edgerrin James, 1st ballot hall of famer type of players in their prime. He's the best.

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