Two minutes left, would you rather be down 4pts with the ball or up 2pts defending? - Page 4 - New England Patriots Forums

***Deus Irae*** · 09-16-2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb6592

But that choice belies your legitimate concerns regarding this defense (expressed in other posts). Unless, you distrust more the ball in Brady's hands.

No it doesn't. I'd rather be in the lead than behind. That's not about trust or distrust.

mb6592 · 09-16-2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

No it doesn't. I'd rather be in the lead than behind. That's not about trust or distrust.

Just to be clear, does your answer speak to our present offense and defense or is your answer more philosophical?

NovaScotiaPatsFan · 09-16-2009, 04:20 AM

I'd need to know more to answer properly, i.e. how many time outs does each team have left, has the 2 minute warning already happened (i.e. are you talking exactly 2 minutes left) do we have any injuries, do they have any injuries, who are we playing, has either D been on the field a lot in the 4th quarter, does the other team have a good long ranger kicker or not, etc.

But based on just knowing what you've told me and assuming the worst I'd rather have the lead and make them score.

PlainOldEd · 09-16-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signbabybrady

he understood it perfect and I think his logic really ends the debate.

he changed the scenario just a touch to prove his point as you have a 3 point lead instead of 2 (which wasnt needed down 4 or 5 is no different at that point in a game) but his logic of starting with the lead and giving the scenario that if you would rather be down with 2 minutes and TFB than you should let them score so TFB still has time to come back is flawless because no one in their right mind would ever do this.

here are the two scenarios

if you think scenario 1 is the way to go than if you were in scenario 2 than you should just let the other team score.

Thanks, I didn't want to have to type all of that.

BradyManny · 09-16-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signbabybrady

The eagles SB was won by the defense at the end....

I also think of the Rams Titans superbowl.....

I think using a few big games here and there is not the way to go on this discussion we would really need to compare all the games that fall into this scenario and just the big ones that stand out.

I will admit that maybe with Tom the offense could be the way to go but with most teams I'll take my chances and I think even still I might prefer the lead.

Personally, I'm just looking at the Pats for this discussion -

So, let's take a brief look at the track record of the offense and defense of the Pats this decade in these clutch situations.

Just to narrow it down, let's hold it just the playoffs:

The offense had clutch (we'll define as late 4th quarter drives to take the lead) in the following games:

01: AFCDG, SB
03: SB [twice]
06: AFCDG, AFCCG
07: SB

That's 6 games, and 7 clutch drives.

The defense had ANTI-clutch drives (relinquishing the lead) in the following games:
01: SB
03: SB
04: SB
06: AFCCG
07: SB

That's 5 anti-clutch drives by the defense.

Admittedly, the defense has had clutch stops, Eagles Super Bowl, Titans AFCDG come to mind.

Essentially, anytime the offense has gotten the ball with more than 50 seconds, tied or down by 4 or less in the Brady era, they've scored a go-ahead TD. Meanwhile, the defense has struggled mightily in the 4th quarter in these key games, even back when the defense was considered amongst the best.

SyN65 · 09-16-2009, 01:42 PM

Considering the state our defense...I'd rather have the offense on the field. It also helps that we have one of the most clutch QB's of all time playing, too...

Synovia · 09-16-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SyN65

Considering the state our defense...I'd rather have the offense on the field. It also helps that we have one of the most clutch QB's of all time playing, too...

So, with 4 minutes left, and a 2 or 3 point lead, you'd let the other team score on the first play, to move to that situation?

BradyManny · 09-16-2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synovia

So, with 4 minutes left, and a 2 or 3 point lead, you'd let the other team score on the first play, to move to that situation?

I think you're taking it too literally. In the logical, practical sense, its hard to argue with wanting to have more points on the scoreboard. But in this hypothetical fantasy land we call the internet, I'm going to reiterate that it seems the offense has had more success getting leads than the defense has had keeping leads.

Synovia · 09-16-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyManny2344

I think you're taking it too literally. In the logical, practical sense, its hard to argue with wanting to have more points on the scoreboard. But in this hypothetical fantasy land we call the internet, I'm going to reiterate that it seems the offense has had more success getting leads than the defense has had keeping leads.

If thats actually the case though, it would be smarter to let the other team score immediately, and count on your offense to score instead of your defense to stop a score.

mb6592 · 09-16-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signbabybrady

he understood it perfect and I think his logic really ends the debate.

he changed the scenario just a touch to prove his point as you have a 3 point lead instead of 2 (which wasnt needed down 4 or 5 is no different at that point in a game) but his logic of starting with the lead and giving the scenario that if you would rather be down with 2 minutes and TFB than you should let them score so TFB still has time to come back is flawless because no one in their right mind would ever do this.

here are the two scenarios

if you think scenario 1 is the way to go than if you were in scenario 2 than you should just let the other team score.

If the logic espoused here is so flawless answer me this. Right now which scenario would you feel more confident in:

- Colts ball @ the 20, Score Pats 14, Colts/Steelers/Chargers 12, 2 mins left (Both teams with 3 timeouts), or
- Pats ball @ the 20, Score Colts/Steelers/Chargers 17, Pats 13, 2 mins left (Both teams with 3 timeouts)?

It's not as easy a slamdunk as you suggest.