AndyJohnson

I'll make the case.

Last year we were above average, ranked 8th and 10th in points and yards.
So if we compare equally or favorably to last year, we are certainly above average.
DL- At least equal, but assuming Warren is healthier that makes us better. Brace may or may not add something. Nothing is lesser than last year.
LB- Our OLBs last year were Vrabel + 1/2 Thomas, + 1/4 Woods + 1/4 Colvin. I see Thomas filling a role similar to Vrabels and based on 2008, thats an upgrade. For half the games we are less at the other side, and half the games better. The sub package role of OLBs could be improved by Burgess.
ILB Mayo figures to be better in year 2. We use a 2nd ILB about half the time, and by the end of 2008 it seemed apparent Guyton was outplaying Tedy. Overall our LB play in 2008 particularly due to injury was disappointing, and this year should be a wash at the worst.
CB- BB decided that Hobbs and Oneal were not good enough and the corners left here and brought in are upgrades. There is no question BB feels it is an upgrade because he had the ability to return the entire unit and gained next to nothing in return for the jettisoned players. If BB is to be considered knowing what he is doing this is a big upgrade.
S- Harrison did not play much, or well in 2008. At least a wash, probably an improvement.

BB BY CHOICE replaced 4 of his starters (and the 5th, Rodney, he would have, if given the choice, because he clearly was through).
There is a big difference, IMO, from changes due to losing players and changes due to getting rid of players. If we are to believe BB knows something about defense, our defense will be better in 09 than 08, because he chose to change the personell.

NEGoldenAge

I also think tipped balls, forced fumbles and strip sacks will generate a lot of turnovers as well. The culture in the Pats locker room, and the draw the Pats have to get "Patriot" players is just starting to blossom. The energy, work-ethic and enthusiasm of the younger players coming in is almost palpable. BB has built something pretty special here, and he knows it. IMO, this is the most talented Pats team ever fielded, but only time will tell.

AndyJohnson

LBs depend on health.
We had Colvin and Seau out there by the end of the season, Thomas played 9 games.
Mayo 09>Mayo 08
Guyton 09=Guyton/Bruschi 08
Thomas 09>>>>Thomas 08 if he plays 16 games
Vrabel 08 was very ineffective. Vrabel 07 to Woods/Burgess/Crabel is a downgrade Vrabel 08 to those guys may well be an upgrade.

I think whether the LB position is better or worse comes down to how they OLBs plays as sub package DEs. I see little difference (effective both seasons) in first down base D. The pass rush they generate in sub packages is the most vital variable and the bar wasnt set very high last year.

Deus Irae

Well, we disagree here. I don't think this year's linebacking is even close to last year's. That's why we're seeing more 4-3. Whether it will stay that way over the course of the season is something that only time can tell us.

Thomas
Vrabel
Mayo
Bruschi

v.

Thomas
Mayo
Woods

No contest, in my opinion.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

Woods will not be a starter in their 4-3 formations. That role is going to Gary Guyton. In fact, Guyton is the prototypical OLB in a 4-3 defense, Woods is not. You know BB thinks Guyton is a starter because he didn't even play on Thursday night while Woods did.

mgteich

Vrabel and Hobbs were important parts of last year's defense.

AndyJohnson

I know that while our opinions of Vrabel as a Pat are similar your opinion of him in 2008 is much higher than mine. I believe that is the difference we have here.
Bruschi's retirement isn't going to have a great difference, and the likelihood we are healthier and not playing Colvin and Seau by the end of the year would be an improvement.

By the way, your analysis leaves out that Guyton will be in Bruschis spot, and that Burgess, at least on 3rd down will share Vrabels duties.

AndyJohnson

They were important parts, but neither played particularly well.

Deus Irae

It's not leaving out Guyton/Burgess with any ill intent or forgetfulness. I was pointing out the vast disparity in the starters. Burgess hasn't done anything 3-4 linebacker in New England to date, so I didn't even bother with that, because I don't see how a fair evaluation can be made there at this time.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

PatsFaninME

Look at the defense this way. Coach Belichick looks to take away the first and second options of the opposing offense. I believe this defense can contain any running game in the league and can probably outright shut down all but the top few teams.

Second, look at the top teams in this AFC. Let's start with Pitt. Not too difficult shutting down their run game and who wouldn't take making Ben try to win a game with his arm. Like our chances there! Indy has much less offensive fire-power than in years past and even in their hey-day, they couldn't beat the Patriots. Sit on Wayne and then what does Manning do. I can hear him whining now. Bring them back to the AFC East so we can get 2 more easy wins every year! Ravens have another great D but still not scared by there offense one bit. Houston looks good but still don't think Schaub can take them to next level.

Face it, it's the Patriots Superbown to win unless they screw it up. Their biggest obstacle may be that the league doesn't want them to win. This year we over come even bad calls in suberbowl.