State of the Teams: New York Jets - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

tombonneau · 07-08-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

I see it about the same way. I don't see nearly enough strengths to overcome the QB/WR deficiencies. I think this team will be playing for the future very early, trying to build around the new QB. The question is whether they will accept that fate, given the swagger and ego that is coming out of North Jersey these days.
I think Ryan has some building blocks that could turn into a contender 3-4 years down the road IF Sanchez is the real deal, and I have a lot of doubts there. But, I don't know if the patience is there to see that through.

I agree. The Jets will be a classic no-margin-for-error team. Once they are down in a game and need to pass, they are toast. But if they can play D, establish the run, they'll be competitive.

Really just depends on how good the D can play. But if the track record of alleged offensive/defensive coordinator "gurus" who become HCs is any indicator, the alleged genius of these OC/DCs resided in the players & scheme of their former team.

Seems like every "offensive genius" (Billick, Childress) can't translate that "genius" to the other teams, and ditto the defensive ones (Marvin Lewis, Dungy, Nolan).

In fact, I think the track record of the Ds of former Raven DCs (Lewis, Nolan) should give Jets fans some pause.

***AndyJohnson*** · 07-08-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATRIOTSFANINPA

Rex will have the defense playing better than it did under Mangini and I think thats not a big longshot for this to occur.

Unless the Pats generate a good pass rusher out of 4 OLB youngsters opposite Adalius,that could be trouble if no one comes forward as a true starter.

Lets be honest here Andy,You like others here hate the Jets and are very biased in that hate,You want them to suffer and go 8-8 or worse every year and even though they may not win 9 or 10 games like I say they will, they will win some,like it or not.- and this is coming from a Patriots fan that does not like the Jets at all.

Without the team in pads or even played a game,this team reminds me a lot of the type of roster Baltimore had last season,Whether that comes to pass we shall see - But don't act stupid like you know what the future holds for ANY NFL team unless your a psychic with proven world ability and only basing stuff from 2008. - Everyone in here is GUESSING about ANY team at this point.

Sometimes the biggest problem that happens in this forum is people saying what will happen BEFORE anything happens instead of basing an opinion or guess on the future and if someone disagrees with yours its wrong because they think they know what will happen based on worthless stats from the previous season which have absolutely no meaning of this year with different players and coaches - To say you are right and every one else is wrong is pure dumb IMO

So Rex Ryan will turn them from below average to dominant just by being there?
How do they remind you of the Ravens?
Who is their Terrell Suggs? Hali Ngota? Ed Reed? Ray Lewis? Trevor Price?
Where is there almost 2400 rushing yards coming from?
Its inane to say they brought a coach from Baltimore so they are Baltimore. How did that work out for Marvin Lewis or Mike Nolan?

What does the Patriots pass rush have to do with the Jet defense? But since you asked who is going to rush the passer for your juggernaut?

By the way, the starting point is that the Patriots defense was better than the Jets last year. We wouldn't have won 9-10 games with Mark Sanchez at QB. So "Rex will have them playing better than Mangini" doesn't cut it for me, because to do what you say "Win 9-10 games with a bad offense, by winning a lot of them 17-14 and 14-7" would take, probably the best defense in the last 30 years of the NFL.

Finally, I have absolutely no clue how you can comment that 'Sometimes the biggest problem that happens in this forum is people saying what will happen BEFORE anything happens instead of basing an opinion or guess on the future and if someone disagrees with yours its wrong because they think they know what will happen based on worthless stats from the previous season which have absolutely no meaning of this year with different players and coaches - To say you are right and every one else is wrong is pure dumb IMO'
When you made a prediction and I gave a response pointing out the flaw in it. Why make it if it is pointless.

***AndyJohnson*** · 07-08-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombonneau

I agree. The Jets will be a classic no-margin-for-error team. Once they are down in a game and need to pass, they are toast. But if they can play D, establish the run, they'll be competitive.

Really just depends on how good the D can play. But if the track record of alleged offensive/defensive coordinator "gurus" who become HCs is any indicator, the alleged genius of these OC/DCs resided in the players & scheme of their former team.

Seems like every "offensive genius" (Billick, Childress) can't translate that "genius" to the other teams, and ditto the defensive ones (Marvin Lewis, Dungy, Nolan).

In fact, I think the track record of the Ds of former Raven DCs (Lewis, Nolan) should give Jets fans some pause.

Not to mention the fact that everyone seems to want to ignore: The Jets defense wasn't good last year.

Sign into this board and you can see tons of deragatory comments about our defense that was in the top 25% of scoring defenses, yet nothing but glowing praise, respect, even fear toward the Jets 18th ranked, below average defense.
How does that happen?

***TriplecHamp*** · 07-08-2009, 05:46 PM

Maddd Disrespect to the Jets in this thread.

....I am saying 8-9 Wins.

***AndyJohnson*** · 07-08-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriplecHamp

Maddd Disrespect to the Jets in this thread.

....I am saying 8-9 Wins.

Based on.............................

They won 9 last year, and have replaced Favre and Coles with a rookie, and ???????
They won 9 with a defense that was below average.
How does that translate to winning 8-9 this year?
When Favre was playing poorly at the end of the season they were a 1-4 team.
DO you expect Mark Sanchez to be better in 2009 than Brett Favre was in 2008? That would be an interesting viewpoint.

***PATRIOTSFANINPA*** · 07-08-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Last years Jets defense was ranked 18th in the league, below average in points allowed.
Last years Jets did not win a single game where they scored 17 or fewer points.
Last years Jets did LOSE 2 games where they allowed 17 or fewer.
Being 'like the Ravens' won't help the Ravens won 1 game where they scored 17 or fewer and AVERAGED 30.3 points per game in their wins.
In fact the Jets had only 1 win (20) where they scored fewer than 26 points.

Oh, and the Patriots won twice when they scored 17 or less.

As far as 'rolling big numbers' the Jets allowed 24 or more points in half of their games last season.

I just dont see any evidence to support your prediction, either that any defense could be good enough to win 9-10 games with that offense, or that the Jets defense would even be one of the top 15 choices to do it if it could be done.
Please explain why you feel they went from below average to dominant, and possibly the best defense ever seen. (The 2000 Ravens won 4 times when they scored 17 or less, the 1985 Bears 2 times)

Where did I say they will have a dominant defense? - I think they will have a very formidable one and one that will probably be ranked within the top 10 best defenses,They do have some weaknesses but a load of talent as well - If those talented players playas they should only a blind man would see they will be pretty tough - Will a strong Defense drastically improve a team in 1 year? - I certainly think it COULD.

I really wish you would stop referring back to what teams did in previous years - its irrelevant.

You know as well as I do that every year some teams that were not so good in 2007 became good in 2008 and some teams that were good in 2007 were not so good in 2008 - I just think the Jets will be improved on the defensive side and improved enough to keep their average offense in many games even though their offense lacks a true WR and when your defense can keep your team in games you have a decent chance to win.

K-Ro 25 · 07-08-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Not to mention the fact that everyone seems to want to ignore: The Jets defense wasn't good last year.

Sign into this board and you can see tons of deragatory comments about our defense that was in the top 25% of scoring defenses, yet nothing but glowing praise, respect, even fear toward the Jets 18th ranked, below average defense.
How does that happen?

A better coach IMO, Jim Leonhard, Lito Sheppard, and Bart Scott should equal a significantly better defense unless im missing something. I dont have them anywhere near dominant and dont even consider them a top ten D however I think they will be a good D with upside. Right now I have us winning 6 game borderline 7. Our rushing attack is more then good enough to play the grind i out style of play but the thing that no one ever talks about which frustrates me ifs that we have no punting game to win the field position game. Someone made a comment earlier abopu the jets rushing attack compared to the Ravens and imo its not close were better then them at running the ball. However at the end of the day I feel the combination of a rookie QB + lack of WR's (even tho I like Keller a lot as a threat) + lack of depth on O & D-line will equal a 6,7 or tops 8 win year. Im perfectly fine with that b/c Sanchez showing potential and playing solid trumps any win total.

***PATRIOTSFANINPA*** · 07-08-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Based on.............................

They won 9 last year, and have replaced Favre and Coles with a rookie, and ???????
They won 9 with a defense that was below average.
How does that translate to winning 8-9 this year?
When Favre was playing poorly at the end of the season they were a 1-4 team.
DO you expect Mark Sanchez to be better in 2009 than Brett Favre was in 2008? That would be an interesting viewpoint.

So based on 2007 the Atlanta Falcons would suck in 2008 and based on 2007 the Miami Dolphins who had one of the worst defenses in that year would suck again in 2008...wait a minute ..ummm THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS!

Andy do you realize how stupid your logic is here or do you think everyone who disagrees is wrong or how about some respect for others opinions like you should have?

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 07-08-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Based on.............................

They won 9 last year, and have replaced Favre and Coles with a rookie, and ???????
They won 9 with a defense that was below average.
How does that translate to winning 8-9 this year?
When Favre was playing poorly at the end of the season they were a 1-4 team.
DO you expect Mark Sanchez to be better in 2009 than Brett Favre was in 2008? That would be an interesting viewpoint.

Sexy Rexy is magic, when he blows magic mushroom smoke up a guys skirt it gives him the "assets" of Ray Lewis so he to will be able to make more tackles than there are defensive plays in a season.

***TriplecHamp*** · 07-08-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

Based on.............................

They won 9 last year, and have replaced Favre and Coles with a rookie, and ???????
They won 9 with a defense that was below average.
How does that translate to winning 8-9 this year?
When Favre was playing poorly at the end of the season they were a 1-4 team.
DO you expect Mark Sanchez to be better in 2009 than Brett Favre was in 2008? That would be an interesting viewpoint.

Lets take a look at the schedule,
Sept 13...@Houston 1:00 PM (WCBS)-W
Sept 20 New England 1:00 PM (WCBS)-L
Sept 27 Tennessee 4:15 PM (WCBS)-L
Oct 4 @New Orleans 4:05 PM (WCBS)-W
Oct 12 @Miami 8:30 PM (ESPN)-L
Oct 18 Buffalo 4:15 PM (WCBS)-W
Oct 25 @Oakland 4:05 PM (WCBS)-W
Nov 1 Miami 1:00 PM (WCBS)-L
Bye Bye Bye
Nov 15 Jacksonville 1:00 PM (WCBS)-W
Nov 22 @New England 4:15 PM (WCBS)-L
Nov 29 Carolina 1:00 PM (FOX)-L
Dec 3 @Buffalo 8:20 PM (NFL)-W
Dec 13 @Tampa Bay 1:00 PM (WCBS)-W
Dec 20 Atlanta 1:00 PM (FOX)-W
Dec 27 @Indianapolis 4:15 PM (WCBS)-L
Jan 3 Cincinnati 1:00 PM (WCBS)-W
Those are nine games on their schedule that I think they can and will win. I think they will be better on defense and I also think that they wont ask to much of Sanchez. Much like what the Ravens did last year with flacco. The Jets have the best run game in the division (IMO) with Jones, Washington, now Green. I also don't think that any QB can play as bad as Favre did at the end of last season