TruthSeeker

To which the corrolary is that luck doesn't play a factor...

PATRIOTSFANINPA

Luck was a factor in the crowning of a champion in at least 2 recent Super Bowls this decade,One FOR NE and One against NE -

SB 36 (The Tuck Rule call that overturned the original call)
SB 42 (The miraculous catch by Tyree)

AndyJohnson

I dont know why that is considered luck.

Were the Patriots lucky that the correct call was made? Arguably, nothing in the world happens without luck if you take that extreme.
Tyree made the play. That is great play not luck.

AndyJohnson

I agree that competition is not decided by luck.
Everything that happens on a field is done by a player, not fate or luck.

RDS11

IMO, you can't evaluate a team based on a single game in a given season, Super Bowl or not. If that was the case, coaches wouldn't spend 28 hours a day looking at films.

I agree that the ability to close out a game should be part of the evaluation package. But luck does play a part. Entering Super Bowl 42, Brady was on 1 leg. A healthy Tom Brady might have avoided the rush better, we'll never know. But the Tom Brady of Super Bowl 42 is not the same Brady who played the previous 18 games.

There's also referees decisions coming into play. The tuck rule was the correct call, but would this had been called the same way by a different referee ? Maybe, maybe not (I'm not saying some referees don't know the rules, but the interpretation of when the QB has tucked the ball in and is set to throw again, that's debatable). So because of one debatable call over an entire season, the 2001 team is considered more talented than the 2007 team ? And if it had been ruled a fumble, by the same logic the 2007 team would have been the more talented of the 2 ? And if the evaluation is mostly based on being clutch in the last game of the season, then we have to account for the fact that Brady himself thought it was a fumble which would have ended the 2001 season.

Fact is, the 2001 Pats won the Super Bowl because of superior coaching. True, the players executed flawlessly. But if both the 2001 and 2007 teams were to play each other, the genius who did the game plan for Super Bowl 36 wouldn't be facing a Martz coached team this time, he would be facing himself. And 2007 Belichick would have probably adjusted earlier than Martz did.

PATRIOTSFANINPA

9 out of 10 times that fumble call is not reversed,I really wonder if that call would have been reversed if the game was in Oakland and by a different crew,I don't think the refs would have gotten out of that stadium alive had it been so.

Tyree made a great play but luck involved the fact that Eli was able to come out from under 3 300 pound defensive player's grasp to move out from under a mass of humanity and have room to toss the miracle pass which Tyree made an amazing catch,There was luck twice on that play but started from the QB and then onto the WR - You could say Eli was more lucky than Tyree if you want to get technical.

PATRIOTSFANINPA

Sometimes luck goes beyond the field such as the fact that there were seconds left in SB 36 that went without a whimper and dismissed when in reality the Rams could certainly had a chance to get the ball back with 5 or 6 seconds left but was never brought up until after the game.

Absurdly Metro

I don't understand how anyone can legitimately argue that talent always wins out. Sporting history is rife with examples of the underdog pulling out the hard fought victory over a more talented opponent. That's exactly what happened in SB 36 in our favor and in SB 42 in the NYG favor. It's okay to admit it. You can still be a Pats fan.

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AndyJohnson

Simply not true. The tuck play has been called many times. It was called in the Jets favor against us earlier in the season.
Are we really going back to the argument that because fans don't know the rules it must mean the refs don't and we were lucky to have the one ref who did? Thats pretty weak.

They made the play, that is skill and ability not luck. He PHYSICALLY avoided being tackled. Was Barry Sanders lucky for his career? Great plays are great plays, not luck.

AndyJohnson

But I am evaluating them based on an entire season, and reaching or not reaching the goal.
Achieving what you set out to do stands alone, the excuses, reasons, explanations, rationalizations are all fine, but the bottom line is there are 32 teams that set out to win a SB. None set out to 'be the best' by ANY OTHER definition. If there is one sole goal among all participants the best is the one who achieves it and all subjective reasoning cannot change that.
Thats my opinion at least.
Look at it this way, for everything you can use as luck, or excuse or explanation, rationalization, etc, there is a very simple answer. They could have overcome it.
You may find that harsh, but we are talking about BEING THE BEST and I think its fair to set the bar extremely high, and not accept failure with explanation over success.