Ranking Boston Sports Legends - Page 12 - New England Patriots Forums

Yehoodi · 06-24-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthSeeker

Yes, we get it. We all agree that he had HOF teammates. We even agree that that individuals don't win team championships, teams win team championships.

Now let's talk about Bill Russell the player and see where he ranks on the list of NBA players and Boston sports legends. That's what everyone else seems to be discussing at this point...

My List

1) Ted Williams

- greatest hitter of all time, lost 5 years of his prime to two wars, first to study hitting in a technical matter, two triple crowns, last man to hit over 400

2) Bobby Orr

- 8 norris trophies, won the scoring title as a defense, forever change the defensive position in hockey, two stanley cups, many more trophies, took a team that was in the cellarof the league and brought it to the promise land, team hasn't won a championship since he left. . .and May 10, 1970 . . . ". . . Keon try to clear it but its not out. . . [Bobby Orr blocking the clearing attempt] . . . Orr behind the net to Sanderson to Orr!!! . . .Bobby Orr scores!! and the Boston Bruins win the Stanley Cup . . . . . [ ]. . as Orr their 22 year old sensation scores . . . “
Many, i said MANY a skating rink was biuld in Bobby Orr era. . .

3) Bill Russell

- 11 titles in 13 years, played and won against the greatest center of all time and thus had that different task of defending him, played as as team player, is whatever and zero it winner take all games . . .

4) Pickem Brady or Bird

we all know their stats, 3 rings in 7-8 years . . . among the best of their generation. I might give the knod to Brady as he had less supporting case than Bird, and I think IS the best of his generation. Not to mention 16-0, 4 SBs appearances, 4th qtr comebacks, and second fastest to 100 wins . . .

btw, here is a really nice tribute to Bobby Orr, from the Legends of Hockey series . . .

YouTube - Bobby Orr Highlight Video

Yehoodi · 06-24-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

Yes saw all 3 play in the Garden, Larry Robinson also.

And a second question have you ever seen live any team sports player who played before 1950. If you have not, then what basis do you have to comment on players who played before 1950 an how they may or may not compare to the players mention in this thread. You see we are at an impass

[/quote]

Saw Ted Williams play.

I can comment on Russell vs Bird, Williams, Orr and Brady since I have seen all live and on TV

[/quote]

Patsfan13, I hear were you are coming from and it does indeed help to have seen some players play, but it not dispositive on ones ability to analzye the sitaution. Hey I have seen Brady play nearly ever snap, that doesn't mean that I do or don't know where his place is in history. Personally seeing him play, I will put him number one of all time if he gets either two more SBs OR a 19-0 season. But that doesn't mean that I am correct if I were to say "its not the 01-04 defense" that won the SB it was Brady. What if it am "wrong" the fact that I seen him play doesn't make me correct. that is all.

Man did you seen Willaims in his prime or later years . . .

I started watching sports in the early 70s

***TruthSeeker*** · 06-24-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yehoodi

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthSeeker

Is it possible to be the greatest player of your time and possibly the greatest player ever if you have 4 HOF teammates?

It obviously depends on the player...

It is just as obvious to me that it does not depend on the player for it to be possible to be the greatest player of your time and still have 4 HOF teammates. My answer is an unreserved "yes".

We can agree to disagree.

Steamer86 · 06-24-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

Did you want to base your theory on statistics or are you doing a Skip Bayless impression.
In the Patriots first Superbowl win, the major reason for winning that Superbowl was that the Patriots defense stopped one of the all-time explosive offenses. That Ty Law was very close to winning the MVP for that game. Yes, Brady got the team in position for the game winner (not taking anything away from him). St. Louis team was known for its offense not defense and the key to that game was defense.
In regards to free agency, do you think Red would have used free agency to his advantage? He got the best players from drafting and a number of those players where not picked in the first round. Red was a genius when it came to acquiring players. How many players do you think would have liked to come play for Boston? You might say, had there been free agency during that era, that the Celtics might have lost some players, but they sure would have acquired some (the ones Red coveted). In addition, tho you did not mention salary cap, I'll throw it out there. There is still not a hard cap in the NBA like there is in football. What's more, who do you think would be at an advantage if there was a salary cap?
The competition of the top teams were just as competitive as today. As matter of fact, a number of those teams would trounce this years' champion.
That 3% statistical chance is very flawed, this is not a draft lottery.

So you don't think it is easier to win a championship in an 8 team league than in a 30 team league?

RayClay · 06-24-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamer86

So you don't think it is easier to win a championship in an 8 team league than in a 30 team league?

Considering the talent is at least twice as concentrated?...

I don't think it matters much, to tell you the truth.

Yehoodi · 06-24-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthSeeker

It is just as obvious to me that it does not depend on the player for it to be possible to be the greatest player of your time and still have 4 HOF teammates. My answer is an unreserved "yes".

We can agree to disagree.

Certainly we can agree to disagree. I am not sure if you have a typo (or its just me and i am not reading your post correct), but it looks like you are agreeing with me, regardless I thinks its always great to have an insightful debate and if necessarily agree to disagree . . excellent

Oh btw was thinking about the Orr link that I gave, and figure I put one up on Richard. That legends of Hockey was a great program

btw, the first minute or so in the intro to the show . . . enjoy if you wish to watch it . . .

YouTube - Hockey Hall of Fame: Joseph Henri Richard, the pocket rocket

scout · 06-25-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthSeeker

By the way, the question I asked is and was:

Is it possible to be the greatest player of your time and possibly the greatest player ever if you have 4 HOF teammates?

I'm not sure you really did answer the question. If I was to take a stab at your answer, it sounds like you're saying no - but I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if I am.

Just finished "Red and Me".
One thing that shouts out throughout the book, and by any knowledgable basketball fan, was the Russell made the players around him better. Russell could have scored a lot more points, but that wasn't what was the most important factor. He not only studied his opponents but also his teamates, for tendencies and weaknesses.
Some critics point to his having all these HOF'ers on his team. Case in point, Bill Sharman.
When Sharman came to the Celtics he was considered a tweener. Had Red not been his coach he may have bounced from team to team and without a doubt would not have acheived his level of success without Russell.

***tdw777*** · 06-25-2009, 09:01 PM

If you love Boston sports, you have to love this thread. Seems to be a consensus that the greatest players are Ted Williams, Bobby Orr, and Bill Russell. I have been on theis earth for 57 years and have seen Bill Russell and Bobby Orr..I have also seen Larry Bird, and Tom Brady and still to this day consider Bill Russell to be the greatest basetball player and Bobby Orr to be the greatest hockey player. As special as Tom Brady is and Larry Bird was, Bill Russell and Bobby Orr, IMHO, are nos 1 and 2 in Boston sports.