Wildo7

"I can't stop and even if I could I wouldn't."

As far as this thread, anyone who tries to put boundaries on art, or dismiss a certain artistic avenue under the guise of "objectivity" is really a shallow, narrow-minded individual. The only "music" that objectively sucks as an art form is commercial music, since it's devoid of any artistic vision and comes from a board room instead of the individual.

The cliche railing against rap in this thread is the same tired crap that the generation before said about Bob Dylan or Lou Reed, except this time it's a confluence of both a generational divide and largely a racial one too.

Most of the rap people are referring to that despise it is the commercial garbage thats spewed out all over the airwaves with the sole intent of making money. If I were to base my entire view of rock music on Good Charlotte or Fall Out Boy, I'd probably share the same narrow minded view and paint with such broad strokes as others do in regards to hip hop.

feldspar

I believe that you just unintentionally just described what it means to contradict yourself.

Read the two quotes again, then tell me that isn't a complete and utter contradiction.

Wildo7

I think you need to read again. The first quote I was talking about art, the second I was talking about music. If music is created with zero artistic motivation, then it isn't art, so it doesn't apply to the original statement. A jingle in a t.v. commercial is "music," but it certainly isn't "art."

P.S. a qualifier does not a contradiction make.

feldspar

OK, maybe I misunderstood.

So, you're saying that all forms of music aren't art? Where do you draw the line, there? How do you draw that line objectively? I think these questions I just asked are hypothetical more than anything, because I don't think there is a standard answer, no matter how educated you are. How do you dismiss all commercial jingles out of hand? I like some of them. I think some of them offer higher levels of artistic motivation than some rap music. If you can dismiss all commercial jingles objectively, why can't you dismiss other forms of music as not being "art?" Whose criteria do you apply? If you say it's all your opinion, I'd respect that. If you say that's somehow proven, I won't. Of course you will sound objective in your assessment, but it will just be what you think about it in the end...your opinion will make it true or not...to YOU.

On the other hand, you must have started from the premise that music isn't necessarily art, which I don't agree with. It's of the arts by definition. You can question the integrity of the music for sure, though. Music is a form of art. I'm not sure where you are separating these two words. If it's bad music, then it's bad art. I could take a crap on the sidewalk and call it art if I wanted to. Who would disagree?

Finally, just like you've suggested, not all forms of "music" should be respected, which I DO agree with. Which forms would that be? It would be up to the individual to decide, because I personally wouldn't trust anybody else to tell me which music is worthy of being called art...or which music is just plain worthy...or however else you want to put it.

But it seems like you'd have to listen to all commercial jingles ever made to make the wide-sweeping statement you've just made...just like anyone would have to have heard all rap to dismiss THAT as a basic legitimate artform. Luckily, we don't have to do that. We make a judgment call and live with it after hearing enough samples to satisfy ourselves. Isn't that a little what it's like.

I'd probably put a few rap songs into the "worthy" category along with a few commercial jingles.

In the end, to tell you the truth, I don't really give a ****. If I don't like it, I think it sucks. I don't have to respect it in the name of some people that wear their collars too tight. That's life.