MoLewisrocks

Are you really that naive...Nobody here makes more than Brady...it's written in the system manuel, as well it should be. And he's supposed to give up a couple of million to boot, and he always has. Nobody gets to be the highest paid player at his position, not even Brady or Seymour. He got his interim concession when he cried and finally got $10/per but only on a 3 year extension that could be prorated over 4 that included the last year of his rookie deal...so the average value of his deal dropped to $8 over 4 years.

We have an even more special circumstance here. It's called "the system". It's underpinnings are founded on sacrifice and discipline and a slotted salary scale. Players are asked to wait their turn, take a little less, respect the fact that we can't make exceptions for a players specialness because everyone who does his job is valued here...and in order to pay fair market value across a roster with sufficient talent and depth they can win championships with elite talent that talent is asked to lead by example.

Peppers wants to play a 3-4 OLB here. Well, that player tops out here at $8M. That player is asked to take a split signing/option bonus here (as are most who require $20M or more). Peppers wants to make the move predicated on increasing his sacks...not gonna happen here. It's not about his sacks, it's about doing what is asked of him - something he apparently bristled about in Carolina where they won't change their system or scheme to suit him. It's hard to compile the eye popping stats that land you pro bowl nods and put you on the HOF fast track here even as you appear in every other superbowl contested. Peppers didn't even play the want a ring card...because apparently self fulfillment is higher on his list of wants.

He had his best season in 2006, not 2008, and in 2007 people were questioning his value compared to other top tier DE. Imagine how he'd deal with the fanboy and mediot finger pointing if he struggled here. Think he could take a year of criticism while he was taught the system intracacies as AD was??? He was apparently disappointed that Carolina after winning it's division got bounced in the first round of the playoffs in a game where he was essentially MIA. He's been on the market for 3 months and no one has brought his agent the kind of deal he can wave in Carolina's face and say make this happen. There has to be a reason or two for that.

I'm sure Bill admires his talent. I'm sure Bill would be interested in at least exploring the possibility of bringing him here. But Peppers hasn't done anything over the last 3 months to facilitate even that happening. Everyone now says Carolina is hamstrung by his tag - no, they chose to hamstring themselves in March by tagging a player they had previously been unable to sign to a long term extension. They could do that because the guy they tagged last year when they couldn't get him extended (Gross) finally agreed to one himself. And for some reason they still want to retain a player who is the face of their franchise and the anchor of their defense even as he apparently doesn't want to be retained. Southern expansion team fan bases are a lot more forgiving than old school passionate NE sports fans... If he were pulling his just want a change crap here the same people who want him so desperately would be calling him a useless overpaid POS and pointing to his seasonal inconsistencies and calling for Bill to package his ass IN a trade.

The FA ship has sailed for 2009. There is little or nothing left to be gained by Carolina trading him now unless it's for a top 5 pick or similar value (like what Denver got for Cutler) that might enable them to replace his value on the roster over the next couple of seasons. He's not worth that to this franchise.

And as for Kraft, he didn't get where he is by opening up his wallet, he got there by making sound disciplined financial choices. He has a lot of players to deal with come the uncapped year. And a lot of long term impact decisions to factor in including negotiating for a new CBA. He's not going to morph into Dan Snyder for a season because he doesn't have his revenue stream and he knows the long term impact (on future negotiations here) would be impossible to manage. People forget he's the guy who said on national television on the very night we won our 3rd superbowl that while he hoped to get Brady extended it would NOT HAPPEN if he wanted Manning money...

People here need to remember that sometimes when things sound too good to be true (like Peppers on the cheap in contract and compensation) it's because they aren't true. While other times when reality sounds too difficult to be overcome, that's because as Bill would say it is what it is...

mayoclinic

Nice post. I pretty much agree with what you said.

If Peppers wanted to come here, he could have facilitated making it happen. BUT he would have to be willing to fit into the team structure, including both the salary structure as an OLB and the role structure in terms of stats taking a back seat to success. He doesn't seem to have done anything in the 2 months since he was tagged to make that happen. Ergo, I have to believe that he isn't truly interested in coming here, whatever he says to the contrary. I don't quite understand what his game is, since he doesn't seem to be resolving a situation which he publicly claims to want out of.

Whatever else, you are absolutely right, the Pats will not break discipline and upset their structure for Peppers or anyone else. If they can bend a little to make it fit, fine, but they won't break the mold for anyone. And they are right not to do so.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Rob0729

First, when did I say that Peppers would make more than Brady? In fact, I said that IF Peppers comes here, it will be for a lower deal than people expect. Besides, Brady is getting a new deal from the Pats within the next year or so anyway. So a temporary trend of someone making more than Brady would be allowed and I doubt Brady would balk knowing that he will be renegotiating his deal soon.

Also, you don't know why Peppers wants to move to a 3-4 and neither do I. I suspect it is the same reason McGinest switched from a DE to LB - moving to an upright position will cutdown on his back problems and reinvigorate and extend his career (remember that many people had written off McGinest before his switch to LB). I don't know if Peppers is all about his stat sheet, but from what I have read and heard about the guy he is a great team player.

As for Peppers not having a deal to waive in Carolina's face, what does that really mean? Peppers has already limited the teams he is willing to go to 5 teams. That means one of those teams would have to make an offer and then be willing to give up a high draft pick or two to get him. And those teams would actually have to have a need for Peppers too boot which we don't know since the only ones we know for sure that are on that list are the Pats and the Cowboys and only one has a pressing need at OLB. Besides, trades like these usually get done right before the draft.

As for Peppers not doing anything to facilitate the trade, how do you know that? His agent could be in Belichick's office right now for all we know. Just because he didn't sign the tender? If Peppers is worried that if he signed it that the Panthers would ship him to the highest bidder even if it is a team like Detriot, I wouldn't sign it either until I was sure that I was going to be traded to the team that I wanted to play for. I don't know if no trade clauses are legal in the NFL, but I doubt they are. Peppers may be playing hardball to put roadblocks to getting a trade done, but none of us know that for sure.

As for Kraft not opening his wallet, yes he is making sound financial choices based on a salary cap structure. The Pats are consistently one of the biggest spenders in real dollars in the NFL year after year. That is a fact. They will be the same in an uncapped year barring the top 12 team rule. Kraft isn't afraid to spend money on this team, but he isn't willing to destroy the Pats' cap to do so like he did in the late 90s. He won't spend like Snyder would who is desperate to buy a championship, but he will spend. He has already stated that an uncapped year would give the Pats an advantage.

I don't know if the Pats will trade for Peppers. I am leaning strongly towards no. I am just not one to totally write it off either. There was far too much smoke to think that Belichick didn't at least have a passing interest in trading for Peppers. But it could have been a passing interest and it could have already past.

Rob0729

Why is that? So they rather let Peppers stay there for a year, pocket $17 million, and leave in free agency next year (or pay him $20 million or the average of the top 5 paid players in the NFL whichever is higher to franchise him again) rather than get a lower first round pick? How does that make sense? If they don't think they can get him to sign a long term deal ever, they need to take what they can get whether it is with the Pats or someone else.

I doubt they will get a Cutler type of trade no matter who trades for him. Cutler is a franchise QB (although I think he is overrated) in his mid 20s who has probably another 10 years of top play barring injury in a QB starved league. Peppers is a DE looking to change position pushing 30 who has had some injury problems the last few years and in the last few years of his prime. If the Panthers got the Pats 23rd pick or something equivalent, they are getting pretty much market value,

DW Toys

Agree Cousin, but he is severely hurting the Panthers one way or the other by not signing his tender. He has bound their hands for the whole FA season. This appears on the onset, to be some type of F.O. vendetta he has cooking? He is punishing them and he is not helping himself if he wants out. Unless someone out there can figure out what he has to gain by this play? Any people with bizzare minds out there that can answer that?

The way to entice Peppers might be major incentives: Sacks, Interceptions, Pro Bowl selections, Playoffs and finally Super Bowl venues. Cut a realistic salary, and if he proves to the Pats, the world and himself that he can be a quality caliber OLB, his teammates here won't object to incentives because he has helped them reach their goals.

DW Toys

Wheelssps

Coming back to the OP's point of the danger of overpaying certain players on a roster and underpaying others, I remember BB was quite aware of that fact when they were going through contract negotiations with Adam Viniteri. In a relatively rare candid comment with the media, he made a comment to the effect that it wasn't a problem to pay Adam 3.5 million vs 2.5 million with regards to their cap situation, but that the Pats couldn't do it as it would have made him I believe the highest paid kicker as well as representing a 40% or so raise. BB then said you can't break your salary system in the short term for one player, because then everyone else wants a 40% raise, too.

The rest of the posts so far have done a great job pointing out Pats vs Bills vs Eagles methods of business, etc, but I just thought that I'd mention the AV situation. Some of you guys probably remember the details better than me.

DW Toys

Good point.
DW Toys

mayoclinic

I agree that Peppers is hurting Carolina. He does not seem to be helping himself, however. It's not clear what his game plan is. If he really wanted out, he could be out by now. Is he just playing some petty game of spite to get back at the FO before signing the franchise sender and soaking them for $17M? That's not the kind of player we want on the Pats. His agent is free to contact teams and negotiate with them, and to present offers to the Carolina brass. BB sent a clear message a month ago that he doesn't do business that way and that if Peppers wants to get traded to the Pats he should sign his tender and let the organizations work it out. He has lots of leverage, but things haven't moved.

IF Peppers were motivated, I'm sure the Pats could bend their structure without breaking it to make things work. I'm sure they would be willing to reach a little. But they won't break the mold, and so far Peppers has offered no hint that he is willing to play ball with anyone. It's kind of a bizarre situation.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Rob0729

I could be wrong but I thought the problem was that the Pats refused to give Vinatieri a lot of guaranteed money because of their concerns about his age and his back which gave him problems his last year here. I thought the word was they offered to make him the highest paid kicker, but refused to guarantee much if any of the money (an about face from his previous contract where he was guaranteed every penny).

Synovia

I didn't see Mike Vrable or Tedi Bruschi getting all out of shape when they gave Thomas more money than the two of them combined.

What I have seen, is long term players who were already the top of the payscale getting upset, like Branch and Samuel, despite nobody being paid more than them.

Some guys are going to complain about money no matter what. Brown was complaining about money before he signed his current contract.