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Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Irae
I wasn't pointing to his cherry picked examples. I was referring to the entirety of the season.
He stated that he could keep posting examples all day. If you don't believe him, call him on it
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Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Irae
Lob pass in the endzone recipient does not equal MVP either. I could just as easily point out that Welker is the league leader in receptions and claim that "answers it". Welker also has more receiving yards and returns punts.
There are soooo many things wrong with this that I don't even know where to begin... but I will.
First, you said "lob pass in the endzone". Right there you basically just said all the QB has to do is just lob the ball up in the endzone and Moss will come down with it... that would mean Moss basically did all the work and is basically uncoverable in the endzone. Thats right!
Second, ["I could just as easily point out that Welker is the league leader in receptions and claim that "answers it"". ] The point of the offense is to SCORE points. That is correct, yes? So would it make sense that the most important player would be the one who is able to actually SCORE points? You don't get points for the number of receptions you have or yards you get, you get points for scoring TDs. Also, Moss is close to Wes in yards, yet he has a ton fewer receptions...
Really, though, I can't stress enough the fact that SCORING is the point of an offense, and that is where Moss is absolutely lethal.
And just for the record, a slot receiver has a FAR easier job getting open than a #1 WR.
__________________
This is the year. We put our failures in the past, it's a new year, a new defense. It's time to prove to the league that the Patriots are back and aren't going anywhere and they will be the last ones standing in Feb.
Update: Well that didn't work out as I had planned. Next year baby, next year 19-0 we go. Next year.
Last edited by Satchboogie3; 12-25-2008 at 12:56 AM..
Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Irae
I wasn't pointing to his cherry picked examples. I was referring to the entirety of the season.
Cherry picking? I just went to the NFL videos section and grabbed the highlights from the last 2 games...
Do you honestly need me to go through all the footage this season and break it down?
__________________
This is the year. We put our failures in the past, it's a new year, a new defense. It's time to prove to the league that the Patriots are back and aren't going anywhere and they will be the last ones standing in Feb.
Update: Well that didn't work out as I had planned. Next year baby, next year 19-0 we go. Next year.
Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyFTW!
Yes, there were other really good players on the top 2 scoring offenses in NFL history (that should go without saying...), but Moss AVERAGED 20 TDs in those seasons. Are you seriously going to claim that he isn't both the common denominator and pretty obviously a core part of both offenses? Because if that's what you're trying to say, then there's really no room left for discussion.
Who cares how many touchdowns he averaged? Moss was the best player on the Vikings, but that team was loaded with offensive talent. He was not even the best player on the Patriots. Again, correlation does not equal causation, which the league recognized when it made Brady the MVP and not Moss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyFTW!
The fact that he didn't play on offenses 3-10 in top scoring means absolutely nothing. Nobody appeared on all ten, so, by that criteria, there has never been a truly great offensive player in the history of the NFL. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
The Colts year alone kills your argument. The rest are just gravy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyFTW!
So yes, in this case, major cause most definitely does equal MVP. Unless you think that it's pure coincidence that Moss has a history of consistently raising the performance of the QBs and WRs around him to HOF levels, levels that they do not and cannot attain without him.
No, it doesn't "most definitely" equal MVP. One could well argue that Welker, Wilfork, Faulk or Cassel is the MVP. As a matter of fact, people could probably make a reasonably fair argument for Mayo as MVP, given the devastation that's happened in the linebacking corps and his play under such circumstances.
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Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchboogie3
Cherry picking? I just went to the NFL videos section and grabbed the highlights from the last 2 games...
Do you honestly need me to go through all the footage this season and break it down?
No need. I already know your numbers are off, as well as your assumptions.
__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius
Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Irae
No need. I already know your numbers are off, as well as your assumptions.
What numbers? Any football fan with half a brain realizes that Moss opens up the field for the other receivers. Most teams have to plan around him, taking him out of the game being their #1 priority.
Seriously though, what numbers? I agree that you can make strong arguments for Cassel, Mayo, Wilfork, etc as the team MVP, but I think it is much harder to make an argument for Welker over Moss.
And just some numbers for you:
Moss: 68 rec 995 yds 14.6 avg 11TD 1TD/6.2 rec 1st% 66.2
Welker: 109 rec 1,139 yds 10.4 avg 3TD 1TD/36.3 rec 1st% 50.5
Welker has been a work horse this year, but the only thing he really has significantly over Moss is receptions. Also take into consideration the fact that Cassel had trouble hooking up with Moss on deep routes earlier in the year. Moss could and probably should have more like 1200yds receiving right now... but heck, he is still close to Welker in receiving yards.
The important stats though, Moss dominates. 14.6 yds/carry, more than 4 yards more than Welker. 8 more touchdowns and an amazing 1TD for every 6.2 receptions.
Another interesting stat is that Moss has a higher 1st down % than Welker, having 45 first downs in 68 receptions, as to Welkers 55 in 109 receptions.
Also, what assumptions am I making? I've shown facts and examples that back up my assertion, yet you have not.
So really, what numbers are you talking about?
__________________
This is the year. We put our failures in the past, it's a new year, a new defense. It's time to prove to the league that the Patriots are back and aren't going anywhere and they will be the last ones standing in Feb.
Update: Well that didn't work out as I had planned. Next year baby, next year 19-0 we go. Next year.
Last edited by Satchboogie3; 12-25-2008 at 02:16 AM..
Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Deus,
What's up with you? You're usually a much better poster than this from what I've seen. Satch and others have stated thier opinions and provided evidence to support those opinions and all you've done is say they're wrong as if you are the final arbiter.
Provide some evidence for your opinion man.
Your one argument of Moss not being on top offenses 3-10 has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. All that stat proves is there are other players in the league besides Moss that know how to play and score points.
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Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchboogie3
What numbers? Any football fan with half a brain realizes that Moss opens up the field for the other receivers. Most teams have to plan around him, taking him out of the game being their #1 priority.
Seriously though, what numbers? I agree that you can make strong arguments for Cassel, Mayo, Wilfork, etc as the team MVP, but I think it is much harder to make an argument for Welker over Moss.
And just some numbers for you:
Moss: 68 rec 995 yds 14.6 avg 11TD 1TD/6.2 rec 1st% 66.2
Welker: 109 rec 1,139 yds 10.4 avg 3TD 1TD/36.3 rec 1st% 50.5
Welker has been a work horse this year, but the only thing he really has significantly over Moss is receptions. Also take into consideration the fact that Cassel had trouble hooking up with Moss on deep routes earlier in the year. Moss could and probably should have more like 1200yds receiving right now... but heck, he is still close to Welker in receiving yards.
The important stats though, Moss dominates. 14.6 yds/carry, more than 4 yards more than Welker. 8 more touchdowns and an amazing 1TD for every 6.2 receptions.
Another interesting stat is that Moss has a higher 1st down % than Welker, having 45 first downs in 68 receptions, as to Welkers 55 in 109 receptions.
Also, what assumptions am I making? I've shown facts and examples that back up my assertion, yet you have not.
So really, what numbers are you talking about?
Trust me, he knows u got him. But watch him keep dancing around because he just can't concede.
Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
Oddly enough, many of Moss' long receptions have come after we've run (or Welker'd, as the case may be) the ball a bunch of times. I'd have to say, looking at the reception and yards totals, the threat of Wes Welker really shortens the field for Mr. Randy Moss.
And I'd be more comfortable calling Moss our MVP if I saw him contest jump balls more frequently, instead of trying to basket-catch everything.
Re: Felger will love this: CHFF calls Moss the 2008 Patriots MVP
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