The Pats Should CONSIDER Replacing Matt Patricia - Page 10 - New England Patriots Forums

SVN · 01-25-2013, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg A. Bedard

Nice work on the pics. Or you could just look at the secondary snap counts:

Ed Reed 83 of 83
Bernard Pollard 83 of 83
Corey Graham 82 of 83
Cary Williams 82 of 83
Chykie Brown/Jimmy Smith 80 of 83

Nice work greg during the season.

moejr · 01-25-2013, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Your claim is not fact. Your claim is just an opinion formed without much, if any, thought. This team has had late leads in two Super Bowls where Welker was a starting WR, and both times the defense failed to hold the leads. Welker's salary will not be a reason for a SB win or the lack of one.

Defense wouldn't have had to protect the lead in SB47 if Wes held onto that ball that would have sealed the game

Greg A. Bedard · 01-25-2013, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVN

Nice work greg during the season.

Appreciate it. Just trying to do my job and keep my head down.

Maybe I can come back after the Super Bowl and a little rest, and we call all have a long chat/airing of grievances. I'm not perfect, I make mistakes, but I hope to learn from them and am far from a finished product. So I'd appreciate the input and I like to be accountable.

All the best. Really good, fun season. Sometimes this is the way the ball bounces.

***DarrylS*** · 01-26-2013, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopblock CB

That's unfortunate you don't remember seeing him talking to all his defenses during games over they years with EVERY D coach...it's happened so many times...

That is what is unique about Belichick... he has done this as long as I can remember, and people who follow this team from afar often comment on it.

Find these threads amusing, as BB via modern communications can hear everything that is going on.. if he does not like what is going on he has veto power..

DarrylStingley · 01-27-2013, 09:13 AM

Reports are that Sean Payton is looking at hiring Romeo or Mangini as defensive coordinator in NO.

Not many people think the Pats should hire one of them in place of Patricia. I still do.

And Greg Bedard, if you're reading, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Patricia.

He might be great, and he might be besides the point as it's really all BB anyway.

But I still think they'd be better with one of those two guys and that Bill would benefit from having a more experienced, seasoned hand like Romeo (in particular) so he could focus a bit less on the D and more on the entire operation. And I'd like to see a guy in that position who would have the stripes to challenge BB a bit more.

Doesn't make me right....just my two cents.

flyonthewall · 01-27-2013, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sicilian

Remember when Dean Pees was the DC for the Patriots and how much people hated his passive style of defense, lack of pass rush, etc? Well he went to the Ravens and poof, he's running a solid defense down there. The difference? He still had proven veteran stars to help him on the field, and overall a lot of defensive talent. The Patriots have been trying to restock their defense since the core leaders left. I am willing to give Patricia the benefit of the doubt until he has the talent to succeed yet still doesn't. They're trending upwards, but until they get there, it's not going to matter who has the DC title.

Pees had far less talent in 2009 and still finished with a top 5 defense in terms of points allowed. Look at the players he had to work with and seriously try to tell me that you would take that roster over this one. He overachieved with what he had to work with and Patricia is underachieving.

2009 Secondary:
Meriweather - cut for good reason and has done nothing since
McGowen - JAG who is clearly not a starting quality nfl Safety
S. Springs - who?
L. Bodden - JAG who was our best cb on the roster in 2009
D. Butler - bust who was since cut
K. Arrington - still on the roster but had not yet emerged in 2009

2009 LBs:
Mayo - only good LB, but was hurt for a lot of the season and wasn't as good as 2008
Guyton - not a starting quality lb
TBC - not a starting quality lb
Adalius Thomas - horrible in 2009 and retired afterwards

2009 DL:
Warren - was past his prime, oft injured, and just average at that point in career
Wilfork - great and still is so nothing to compare
Green - JAG and not a starting quality DE

The only 2 quality players (Mayo and Wilfork) are still on the roster and every other position has since been UPGRADED. Stop making excuses for Patricia, the talent is there. You may have disliked Pees but he would have fielded a top 5 defense with these players.

SVN · 01-27-2013, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyonthewall

Pees had far less talent in 2009 and still finished with a top 5 defense in terms of points allowed. Look at the players he had to work with and seriously try to tell me that you would take that roster over this one. He overachieved with what he had to work with and Patricia is underachieving.

2009 Secondary:
Meriweather - cut for good reason and has done nothing since
McGowen - JAG who is clearly not a starting quality nfl Safety
S. Springs - who?
L. Bodden - JAG who was our best cb on the roster in 2009
D. Butler - bust who was since cut
K. Arrington - still on the roster but had not yet emerged in 2009

2009 LBs:
Mayo - only good LB, but was hurt for a lot of the season and wasn't as good as 2008
Guyton - not a starting quality lb
TBC - not a starting quality lb
Adalius Thomas - horrible in 2009 and retired afterwards

2009 DL:
Warren - was past his prime, oft injured, and just average at that point in career
Wilfork - great and still is so nothing to compare
Green - JAG and not a starting quality DE

The only 2 quality players (Mayo and Wilfork) are still on the roster and every other position has since been UPGRADED. Stop making excuses for Patricia, the talent is there. You may have disliked Pees but he would have fielded a top 5 defense with these players.

I dont think pees wouldve done any better IMO. Because this is belichick's defense and both patricia and pees ran the BB system and way he wants it. Pees went to Bal and is running it his own way . So if you think coordinators are the issue blame BB. I think its just avg players. Marquice cole wouldnt suddenly cover boldin.

***Deus Irae*** · 01-27-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyonthewall

Pees had far less talent in 2009 and still finished with a top 5 defense in terms of points allowed. Look at the players he had to work with and seriously try to tell me that you would take that roster over this one. He overachieved with what he had to work with and Patricia is underachieving.

Until the Patriots brought in Talib, the CB starters were the now-exposed McCourty and Arrington. 2009 Bodden was better than either 2012 starting CB, as was 2009 McCourty, who had not yet been exposed as a liability in man coverages. 2009 Meriweather was better than either 2012 starting safety, as was 2009 Sanders/McGowan, for that matter. In fact, the 2009 defensive secondary was better at every position than the 2012 secondary was, prior to the acquisition of Talib and the positional adjustments that went along with it.

2009 Ty Warren was better than any 2012 D-lineman not named Wilfork. Guyton, while terrible against the run and overrated against the pass, was still a better pass defending linebacker than Spikes is now.

The notion that the Pees/Belichick duo was doing a bad job was wrong, and I was a defender of the D.C. at that time. They were doing quite well with what they had. The same is true of the Patricia/Belichick duo in 2012. This defense has been in decline, talent-wise, since 2007-2008. Last season stopped that trend, particularly once Talib came in and Dennard forced his way into the CB2 spot. Moving forward, we should start to see some real improvement, unless the team screws up the defensive secondary in the offseason, yet again.

***AndyJohnson*** · 01-27-2013, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Until the Patriots brought in Talib, the CB starters were the now-exposed McCourty and Arrington. 2009 Bodden was better than either 2012 starting CB, as was 2009 McCourty, who had not yet been exposed as a liability in man coverages. 2009 Meriweather was better than either 2012 starting safety, as was 2009 Sanders/McGowan, for that matter. In fact, the 2009 defensive secondary was better at every position than the 2012 secondary was, prior to the acquisition of Talib and the positional adjustments that went along with it.

2009 Ty Warren was better than any 2012 D-lineman not named Wilfork. Guyton, while terrible against the run and overrated against the pass, was still a better pass defending linebacker than Spikes is now.

The notion that the Pees/Belichick duo was doing a bad job was wrong, and I was a defender of the D.C. at that time. They were doing quite well with what they had. The same is true of the Patricia/Belichick duo in 2012. This defense has been in decline, talent-wise, since 2007-2008. Last season stopped that trend, particularly once Talib came in and Dennard forced his way into the CB2 spot. Moving forward, we should start to see some real improvement, unless the team screws up the defensive secondary in the offseason, yet again.

One point, McCourty was not here in 2009.

***Deus Irae*** · 01-27-2013, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

One point, McCourty was not here in 2009.

You're right, I was conflating his 2010 season with the 2009 team for some reason. That leaves Springs/Butler. Now, if someone wants to argue that Springs/Butler was worse than 2012 Arrington, I'd be happy to see that argument.*

* I'll leave my screw up in the other post, to see how many times I get bashed for it and to see if people switch over to Springs/Butler. It's my bad, so I'll take the lumps.