OT: Tubby Ratfink keeping his Browns job - Page 4 - New England Patriots Forums

robertweathers · 01-07-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by condon84

He can gameplan a good game and seems to have a good grasp at game management. He's not for every player (like BB) and can definitely rub people the wrong way.

The players that buy into what he's selling aparently really like to play for him.

Case in point: Laveranues Coles. He hated Mangini when Mangini first arrived at the Jets. Tried to undermine him but eventually got sold on what Eric was all about. Here's an interesting article about what Coles thinks of Mangini: CLEVELAND REBOOT: Laveranues Coles on Eric Mangini

EDIT: For people not wanting to click on the article, here's some excerpts.

Walking off the field with Coles, I quickly got the impression that I was talking to a very professional and incredibly rational player. Despite the wealth of negative material that orbits Mangini, Coles didn’t dwell in the personal, as he admitted that Mangini is “a really good coach”, however it takes players a while to “figure him out.”

As for what’s in store for the Browns going through their first Camp Mangini, Coles reveals the entire experience will be an evaluation process, albeit one that is very physical and draining for all involved.

“Mangini’s first camp, really, his first couple seasons is just him getting a feel for guys. The thing about Mangini is he wants to find out which players are with him, which guys are about his philosophy. His camp is about pushing, breaking guys down to their lowest point, then pushing you further. That’s how Mangini weeds guys out. He wants to find his core guys, then build his team around his guys.”

Coles comparing Marvin Lewis with Eric:

“The thing about Marvin is he takes care of his veterans. With Mangini, the vets have the same reps as the rookies. You can be a vet and it don’t matter, you’re in the same drills as everyone else. Everyone’s equal up there.”

Good info, Condon84. Maybe we can find some common ground here.

Everyone at the NFL-level is a good coach. If Mangini was a bad coach, BB would never have hired or promoted him in the first place. Lets contort the argument to be, "Eric Mangini is a successful NFL coach."

Like I said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as a good coach as BB had him on his staff and even promoted him to DC. He even had some winning seasons, went to the playoffs and did get teams to play hard for him- especially these last few weeks in CLE.

But in all good conscience, I can't be convinced to say that Mangini is a successful HC. His lifetime record is 28-36. BB was 36-44 after 5yrs in CLE. Is he a good coach? Sure. Was he a good head coach? Maybe. Was he a successful head coach? Mixed at best, with the answer most likely being a no. I know Modell didn't help matters, but BB made his own bed with poor draft picks and other acquisitions.

condon84 · 01-07-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertweathers

Good info, Condon84. Maybe we can find some common ground here.

Everyone at the NFL-level is a good coach. If Mangini was a bad coach, BB would never have hired or promoted him in the first place. Lets contort the argument to be, "Eric Mangini is a successful NFL coach."

Like I said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as a good coach as BB had him on his staff and even promoted him to DC. He even had some winning seasons, went to the playoffs and did get teams to play hard for him- especially these last few weeks in CLE.

But in all good conscience, I can't be convinced to say that Mangini is a successful HC. His lifetime record is 28-36. BB was 36-44 after 5yrs in CLE. Is he a good coach? Sure. Was he a good head coach? Maybe. Was he a successful head coach? Mixed at best, with the answer most likely being a no. I know Modell didn't help matters, but BB made his own bed with poor draft picks and other acquisitions.

His record would say that he is slightly below average HC and I understand your argument that he isn't a successful HC yet. However, from watching his teams play and how he's modeled teams after he arrives, it's clear that he's got a plan and knows the X's and O's.

IMO, he was made a scapegoat last year for the Jets collapse.

***ausbacker*** · 01-07-2010, 06:20 PM

In spite of the hatred towards Mangini for his conduct leaving the Patriots, nobody can deny that he didn't do a good job with the Browns toward the end of the season. He did go on a 4 win streak to close out the season. The Pats best was a 3 win streak.

robertweathers · 01-07-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by condon84

His record would say that he is slightly below average HC and I understand your argument that he isn't a successful HC yet. However, from watching his teams play and how he's modeled teams after he arrives, it's clear that he's got a plan and knows the X's and O's.

I don't disagree. Mangini does know Xs and Os. He has to at this level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by condon84

IMO, he was made a scapegoat last year for the Jets collapse.

I wish I knew the whole story with Mangini in NY. Rumors were that they even planned on giving him an extension after they went 8-3 last year and contemplated keeping him even after their last game in 08. I would agree that he lost the political chess match with Tannenbaum. I don't attribute the collapse to him totally, Favre being hurt and throwing those terrible INTs at the end did him in. Hes a whole seperate issue entirely.

In trying to split out the media BS, Mangini does strike me as someone who is smart, knows football and gets his players to play for him. However, he comes across as not politically savvy, which led to his undoing here, in NY and was on that path in CLE before Holmgren saved him. Maybe it's a maturity thing or a, "I gotta be scessful as quickly as possible and screw everyone in my way" type of thing...Wish I knew.

***mgteich*** · 01-07-2010, 06:59 PM

And may Mangini be the fall guy yet again in two years!

***reflexblue*** · 01-07-2010, 07:09 PM

Manginas not a Rat, hes a Cat with nine lives.

***Jackson 2*** · 01-07-2010, 07:21 PM

Great. It means we won't have to worry about the Browns for a while...

RhodyPatriot · 01-07-2010, 07:58 PM

Tubby Ratfink is keeping his job because Jon Gruden wants another year in the broadcast booth. Holmgren is keeping his powder dry until he gets one of "his" guys for HC and they're not available right now.

***Gwedd*** · 01-07-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhodyPatriot

Tubby Ratfink is keeping his job because Jon Gruden wants another year in the broadcast booth. Holmgren is keeping his powder dry until he gets one of "his" guys for HC and they're not available right now.

This. When the knife comes, Mangini will not see it coming, but he'll feel it. It will be swift, deep, and right in the kidneys. Holmgren can play Byzantine Court with the best of them.

robertweathers · 01-07-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwedd

This. When the knife comes, Mangini will not see it coming, but he'll feel it. It will be swift, deep, and right in the kidneys. Holmgren can play Byzantine Court with the best of them.

Well played. Sure don't here references to the Byzantine Court on patsfans.com too often.