robertweathers

I agree. You need to have that internal sense of urgency to continue towards excellence. Personally, I think Manning still has it.

My point is that even the great ones can check out, get burnt out, have a shift in life priorities, etc. Happens all the time.

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

ManningOverratedHick

I think the difference between Brady and Manning, the Pats and the Colts and their fanbases is that Brady, the Pats, and us fans expect the Pats to win the Superbowl every year. We feel like we have the Joe Montana and Bill Walsh of the modern era and because of that, anything less than a Super Bowl victory is a disappointment. Manning, the Colts, and their fans are like the rest of the teams that "hope" its their year, and if they lose in the playoffs, "well Peyton threw for 4,000 yards and the team went 11-5." Second place isn't celebrated by Brady, Belichick, the team, or the fans, and that to me is the difference between people like Brady, Montana and Jordan and people like Marino, Favre and Manning.

robertweathers

I agree to a point. Once the Colts got to 13-3 in 1999 they got a taste of what was possible w/ Manning, Edge James, Harrison, etc. Then when the Pats started beating their brains in every reg season/playoff game they started to obsess over them ala Sox/Yanks circa 2002-2004. When they finally broke through in 06, the fan base certainly started to cool their jets a little and I think ownership did too. Has the fan base's complacency rubbed off on Peyton? Not sure about that one. I do agree that because the Pats fan base is so crazed over the team (and it votes with $$$$$$), the team feels comfortable shelling out big bucks for BB's contract extension, signing bonuses (before this CBA mess), etc. Colts fans certainly have money to spend too but the team is in middle of the pack in terms of revenue which makes it a little more challenging for Irsay and Polian to bring on big name FAs which in turn gets fans excited year over year.

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

holyredeemer

I don't really think it's fair to say Manning no longer has the fire to win the big one, with the basis of the argument being that the media isn't showing them the love as much as they used to. Earlier this year, I remember daily coverage being devoted to the comments Manning laid out when he called out the teams organization and the abilities of the new coaching staff. The guy was pissed.

If he didn't have that fire and competitive edge, those comments would've never been made. You can't be one of the greatest QB's in the history of the game and rest on your talents alone. Hey, I dislike Manning just as much as the next pats fan in line, but I'm not watching the guy at practice, in the film room or behind the scenes, and I'm sure no one else here is either. So, who are we to assume he's checked out and just going with the motions?

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"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur."
-- Vince Lombardi on football

spacecrime

You're joking, right? Manning played horribly last year. Except for the team around him (and some classic errors by the opposing teams), they would have started 0-5. Explain to me how Manning won the Texans game.

I'm not saying they didn't deserve to be in the playoffs. Luck is part of the game. But without BB calling timeout as Cassel sneaked for a first and goal, or a weird penalty by Thomas at the end of the game, the Colts lose to teh Pats in the regular season and are out of the playoffs while the Pats are in.

Yeah, they got in, but in speite of Manning, not because of him.

Yeah, yeah, I know he was hurt. It was gutsy for Manning to play, and again, they deserved to be in the playoffs. But Manning did NOT carry that team.

Why? We can recognize who has fire and who doesn't. Having been a top athlete does not mean you carry fire all your career.

Here is fire and not fire even you can recongnize. McNabb throws a horrible pick. He catches the eye of the WR and smiles and thumps his chest. "My bad," he seems to say.

Brady throws a pick. He storms back to the bench. Starts to take a drink of water, they throws the cup into the ground so hard that bricks fall off of the Great Wall on the other side of the earth. He screams out an epithet. You can read his lips clearly.

I question the fire of McNabb and it is ridiculous to think that anyone who cares to look cannot see the difference between McNabb and Brady.

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“When we look at the board, based on everything we want in a football player at that particular time, we evaluate them and take the player that fits best for our football team. That’s what we always do, and I think the last nine years we’ve put a pretty competitive team out there on the field every year. I think that’s how you do it – you get good football players. Sometimes they are not always at the No. 1 position, but I don’t think you pass up good football players to get the guys who aren’t as good just because they’re at a position that somebody feels you need.”
BB on his draft philosophy, April 2010

robertweathers

Agreed.

McNabb is aloof and has issues focusing. Look at last year, Reid needed to bench his behind just to light a fire under his butt.

I think Manning wants to win badly, but he also wants to do-it-all and makes dumb decisions in pressure moments. In 06,that Colts D saved him. He was putrid vs. KC, and Balt. No need to discuss the 2nd 1/2 of the 06 AFCCC. he got lucky.

__________________
“I'm not really concerned about the other 31 teams,” - Bill Belichick

"If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach." - Bill Belichick

Captain Cliche

The Mannings got their rings.

Now we can go back to playing tackle football.

falloutboy14

He did throw the game winning TD pass. The defense put him in position to win the game sure. But I'm sure there have been games where the Patriot's defense put Brady in position to win the game and he finished it.

Technically, without that game, the Colts would have still been in the playoffs as the 6 seed. The Ravens would have been out. And btw, if not for a bad call by the refs, the Colts would have won vs the Jags & been the #1 seed in the AFC

Since the only way I can think of to get to the playoffs in spite of the QB would be like the 2000 Ravens, with defense & running, let me provide stats.

5th best passing offense (by yards)
31st best rushing offense (by yards)

A few stats from specific games:

vs Steelers: 21/40, 240 yards 3 TDs 0 picks (62 yards rushing on 19 carries)
vs Jaguars: 29/34, 364 yards 3 TDs 0 picks (32 yards rushing on 18 carries)

Btw these running numbers include the fact that the defense was playing the pass. Perhaps you can explain how the Colts win these games in spite of Manning?

He went against the leagues best defense without a running game, throws the ball 40 times and 0 interceptions.

The Jaguars game was probably his best performance in years. That's an 85% completion rate, 12.5 yds per completion

For years, I've heard Patriots fans say how cool and collected Brady was compared to Manning, who is apparently easily frazzled. Thank you for saying that.

As far as the general comments of this thread, I feel the Colts get their fair share of media attention, just saw a segment of Caldwell mic'd up during training camp. Keep in mind they're not in the AFC/NFC East, & don't have any controversies to their name.

As far as Peyton's work ethic is concerned. Everything I've heard the last decade is that his preparation is the best of any QB in the league. Since he calls his own plays a large portion of the time, I imagine he prepares a great deal.

RE what ManningOverratedHick said:
As far as expectations are concerned from a fans stand-point, I expect a SB win. I expect a top-5 D this year, at worst top-10. If the running game gets itself to the '07 form (it should) we should be in every game.

As far as my reactions from last year, it certainly sucked losing in the playoffs. Once your team's out of the running, I generally do take solace and appreciate the journey. The Texans come-back is a game that will never leave my Tivo. I'm glad Marvin was able to get to #2 on the receptions list all-time What do you guys think of the '08 season? Do you guys take no joy in Brady getting league MVP, & all the TD passing/reception records?

As far as a non-SB win being a disapointment for the team, do you guys think Bob Kraft threw away the Lamar Hunt trophy for winning the AFC championship in '08? It may not be on the same level as the 3 Lombardies in the trophy case, but I feel its an accomplishment to be proud of.

ausbacker

I dislike Seyton as much as the next guy, but he's a quality player and a competitor. To say anything less is an insult to him and football knowledge.

I don't know what to expect of the Colts this season. That's what makes them dangerous.

Ice_Ice_Brady

I don't see the big surprise here.

The Patriots were not exactly hated up until their third Super Bowl win. At that point everyone starting getting tired of them. Although a lot of people say Spygate was the turning point, I recall a lot of venom when the Pats played the Colts in the 2006 AFCCG... bottom line is, most teams incur hatred the longer their success lasts.

For the Colts, in '03 to '06, they were a media darling team, and most fanbases liked them, probably because they were exciting to watch but you never had the crippling feeling that your team was absolutely toast against them (like against New England.) It's now been 6-7 years of Colts' success, so the novelty has worn off. I think Brady's '07 season did a lot to damage the mystique of Manning. It was a little like Barry Bonds overshadowing Mark McGwire (let's hope both Brady and Manning do not suffer the ultimate same fate as those two.)