Why do we as fans have to defend our own team? - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

***Deus Irae*** · 04-28-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke_Mowatt

...I'm not lambasting everyone who has a differing opinion, I'm lambasting those who think theirs is the only opinion, no matter how ignorant or uninformed it might be, and no matter how many people who know more might try to help them understand.

Do you not see the inherent hypocrisy in your staking out this position?

Zeke_Mowatt · 04-28-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

No, sorry, but that's not correct.

Care to expound or just want to counter with "I know you are but what am I"

jeffbiologist · 04-28-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke_Mowatt

I guess that's it though...I grew up with all of this, I lived up there until 2000, and it was only after I left that they had any relative success. I was watching the bears blowout, I saw buckner live on tv as it happened, I put a dinner plate sized hole in my wall on the kick return vs. Green Bay, so I feel the pain of times past, but I don't get what is almost hate in this modern era. I grant I'm lucky to avoid the talk radio up there, but the reality is, they have negative, shock-radio esque talk radio blowhards everywhere. I guess I still don't get those who have nothing but negative to say. Deus seems to think this translates into my lemming-esque following of the team, but my concern is for the across the board criticism that borders on loathing for the team; even having been there while we sucked, I never got this and maybe never will. I suspect, as I did say in a previous post in regards to Deus, that some of this stems from a feeling of being owed something from your local sports franchises. I got sucked into a bit of an argument with Deus that probably detracted from the overall point, which is ultimately my own fault, but I don't think that changes the fact that the mentality is that of an ingrateful fan-base that I just don't get. As for the Bruins and Celts (my god I wish they could talk to the Wizard and find some heart these past 2 games), I see your point, and in both those cases, I think there is more honest justification for ******ing - I can see being unhappy with mismanaged franchises as a fan, but I don't see where people think this is a mismanaged franchise. I guess that's more my point than anything...if we were Jets fans, Lions fans, even Bills fans, I could see being pissed off about how things went, but we are the absolute best out there for years upon years...you don't win every game, and you wish they would, but sheesh, c'mon, it's been pretty awesome and there really isn't any sign that it's getting worse other than the squawk of the chicken littles...

I think its important to note that these posts isnt who we are. Everyone posts for a different reason, everyone has their sensetivity spots and not everyone is trying to avoid them,lol. Some people argue just to argue, some people try and make a point which they arent very good at....some people like to run their post count up and keep track of it.
I think of it like this...we got a waste of space type in the white house, some of us put him there and some of us didnt. What he does has a reflection on who we are as Americans. What this team that we all love does is a reflection on us as fans. The spygate thing, as small as it is, did nothing but prove that the team is run by humans and fallible ones at that. We know BB/TB wont be around forever, and how this team will be remembered is in part how we want to be remembered as fans.
Dont be afraid to argue a point with anyone here, dont be sensitive--this is FOOTBALL! If you are afraid go find the Red Sox forums and have some metrosexual massage your ego for you,lol. Nice to meet you.

Zeke_Mowatt · 04-28-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Do you not see the inherent hypocrisy in your staking out this position?

It would only be ironic if I hadn't myself (admittedly) occasionally leapt to incorrect conclusions, and learned from them (particularly when it comes to football, please don't try to assert your argumentativeness is in the same category as football minds who explain football issues) as other posters presented counter arguments. Read the post you are talking about - again, I'm not saying "toe the company line or shut up" I'm saying wtf is with all the ridiculous "the sky is falling" and why won't those same people even listen to those (not me, others who know more than me, on this board, not BB/Pioli, which is one of the many areas where your point fails Deus) who know more than they do?

Zeke_Mowatt · 04-28-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffbiologist

What this team that we all love does is a reflection on us as fans. The spygate thing, as small as it is, did nothing but prove that the team is run by humans and fallible ones at that. We know BB/TB wont be around forever, and how this team will be remembered is in part how we want to be remembered as fans.
Dont be afraid to argue a point with anyone here, dont be sensitive--this is FOOTBALL! If you are afraid go find the Red Sox forums and have some metrosexual massage your ego for you,lol. Nice to meet you.

But if you are concerned (and I don't argue that we should be, just taking your point a step further) about how the team reflects on us as fans, shouldn't you also be concerned at the "spoiled know it all ingrate" appearance that these kinds of things give us as fans? I'm one of few Pats fans I hang around with, and I haven't been embarrassed by a single thing that's happened, but if you are concerned with that possibility, shouldn't you also be concerned with the idea that we come off as complete ingrate jerks who have what most football fans would give their first born for? The phrase "give horse in the mouth" comes to mind. Again, I don't think we as fans should feel that way either, but it certainly falls as the logical conclusion to your argument doesn't it?

***Deus Irae*** · 04-28-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke_Mowatt

It would only be ironic if I hadn't myself (admittedly) occasionally leapt to incorrect conclusions, and learned from them (particularly when it comes to football, please don't try to assert your argumentativeness is in the same category as football minds who explain football issues) as other posters presented counter arguments. Read the post you are talking about - again, I'm not saying "toe the company line or shut up" I'm saying wtf is with all the ridiculous "the sky is falling" and why won't those same people even listen to those (not me, others who know more than me, on this board, not BB/Pioli, which is one of the many areas where your point fails Deus) who know more than they do?

I read the post. It was hypocritical. It's good to see you step back from it as far as your personal 'level of knowledge'. Of course, the hypocrisy remains and you simply transferred the hypocrisy to those "others who know more than me".

The irony of you giving me grief is that I am nothing approaching a Chicken Little. In fact, I berated those people when they posted in the game thread, because I got tired of reading "We suck!" after every completion by the other team. However, the idea that, other than a comparatively small handful of posters, you know definitively who's more knowledgeable than the next person is just folly.

Nobody, for example, knows if the draft picks made by the Patriots this weekend will pan out, and that includes Belichick and Pioli. Why shouldn't someone question that draft if they think it sucked? And, if they think the draft sucked, Bruschi and Seau are too old, and Victor Hobson won't get it done, why shouldn't they say that the sky is falling? What the hell do you care, so long as it's not in a game thread where it's essentially unavoidable? Arguing about whether or not Bruschi has anything left in the tank, or which rookies on any team will be awesome and which ones will completely suck is just the sort of stuff that's needed to pass the time in the offseason.

tunafish · 04-28-2008, 11:36 PM

Alright, time for a change of topic: So what do you all think of Hobbs? I for one am a fan.

***MosiT*** · 04-28-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunafish

Alright, time for a change of topic: So what do you all think of Hobbs? I for one am a fan.

Nice player.

tunafish · 04-28-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MosiT

Nice player.

I know, right? He seems to get a lot of hate on these boards, any idea why?

jeffbiologist · 04-29-2008, 01:41 AM

Most of it has to do with name calling when someone cant win an arguement that the sky is blue. Proof without a picture. But some of us get over it, some of us dont,lol.