From Blog:

Looks like Reiss is reading a lot into BB's visit to Gainsville.

NFLdraftcountdown.com has him doing to Vikings in middle of first on their latest mock, so definitely feels like a reach (or maybe Reiss would have felt NE would trade down, only he couldn't in mock).

Here is their scouting report:

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...ickharvey.html

From this report, sounds like he is more a pure DE with less of a chance to convert to 3-4 OLB than other prospects ... but gotta admit I don't know much about the guy.

No, you're absolutely right. If presented with the choice of Harvey or Groves, BB will almost certainly take Groves.

Belichick visits Meyer every year, along with Tony LaRussa on his trip to Spring Training. Reiss should know better than to read too much into this.

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-- Ty Warren, on his plans for celebrating his contract extension.

When it's fourth and 10, you can have the milk drinkers. I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time. -- R.I.P. Max McGee


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While my exposure to Harvey and Groves was limited (pretty much just national TV games), it seems like there is a pretty solid distinction between them.

Harvey seems more consistent and you notice him on just about every play. The question is whether or not he can successfully transition to OLB. Not so much that I believe he can't...just don't have much evidence to show that he can make the transition successfully. That may be a deal-breaker at #7.

Groves seems ideal for OLB so I doubt the transition will be much of a question. However, he seems to disappear at times. Not sure if it is effort or if he is out of position (either blocked or lost). Maybe some SEC followers have a better read on Groves, but the possibility of drafting a slacker at #7 may be too big a risk.

Either way, I would be much more comfortable drafting these guys later in the first round if at all possible.

I think there is more to a football player than the 'bathing suit' test, Groves has almost every advantage physically but his work ethic and passion for the game is highly questionable. I would not be surprised if Harvey was taken at 7 but would b shocked if Groves was taken at 7. If the Pats trade back to around 15 and Groves is available then it starts to make sense.

Urban can provide detailed information on Harvey, work ethic, etc. between Meyer and Saban BB has two really good scouts for the SEC players.

All the talk of speed is overrated, I can't recall Merriman, Ware or any other rush oriented LB making a play going backwards. They are paid to close the pocket and pressure the QB. When all is said and done I don't think there will be much of a gap between the pro careers of Harvey, Long and Gholston. Groves good also perform or continue to be the dog most of the time, with an occasional tease thrown in.

I have a hard time believing a player who missed two games after dislocating three toes (early in the season), and still finished 2007 with 23 QB pressures (most in the SEC) is a potential "slacker".

His only giving up 1.69 yards per carry on the 35 plays he made against the run, and making 28 third down stops (20 of which he made in pass coverage) seem to go against that theory, as well.
To go even further, Groves made 13 tackles inside the Red Zone, and had 6 Goal-line Stops. So, even while playing injured, Groves made some important plays, and put a ton of pressure on the apposing QB. That's not a common trait found among slackers.

Also, did you get to see how a healthy Groves played in 2006?

But, I will agree that I would rather trade down, and possibly select Groves, if available.

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If we were looking for a 4-3 end, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, it is my belief that a 3-4 OLB needs to have more agility and quickness than Harvey appears to have. I think Groves is much less a project.

__________________
There isn’t too much I need. It doesn’t take much to please me. As long as my wife and kids are healthy with a shelter over their heads and food on the table, I’m happy.
-- Ty Warren, on his plans for celebrating his contract extension.

When it's fourth and 10, you can have the milk drinkers. I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time. -- R.I.P. Max McGee


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We agree to disagree. I don't think to use stats (unless the help my argument) but I look at these numbers and I see a bunch of guys that are very similar, some are faster (Groves, Gholston) some are stronger (Gholston, Harvey), etc. etc. etc. All of their shuttle and cone times are about the same (whatever that means), Harvey actually has better times than Groves in both of them. When I watched the drills on NFL Network Harvey and Long appeared the most fluid, not the fastest but the most natural.

In the end I rate the top 3 of Gholston, Long and Harvey as almost the same with Groves a little further behind. They were all productive in college and are good athletes, their ability to improve and endorse football as a profession will determine who becomes a better pro.


Long, Chris ---------- Virginia ---1 6-3 272 4.75 2.70 1.53 34 10'04" 4.21 7.02
Gholston, *Vernon ---- Ohio State -1 6-3 266 4.65 2.65 1.53 37 35 1/2 10'05" 4.40 7.12
Harvey, *Derrick ------ Florida -- 1 6-5 271 4.84 2.76 1.59 31 28 1/2 09'05" 4.36 7.27
Groves, Quentin ------ Auburn ---- 1 6-3 259 4.53 2.62 1.57 30 29 1/2 10'00" 4.42 7.31

Am I the only one who thinks Cliff Avril is a better OLB fit than either of these 2?

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Avril is a nice player, not very productive but his workouts have really helped his stock. I think he is a better fit in some other schemes but if the Pats took a CB in round 1 and Avril in round 2 I would consider it a good day 1. That could be an option if the Patriots see less of a drop-off in the round 2 DEs than they see in the round 1 CBs.

Avril was more productive than groves this past year, I know groves hurt is toe, but come on, If he's worth the 7th pick he should have more than 3 sacks no matter how hurt he is

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