Chris Long's change of direction and athletic ability....impressive! - Page 4 - New England Patriots Forums

PonyExpress · 02-25-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ochmed Jones

A couple of things:

1.) I think Willie ran a 4.55 coming out of USC.

2.) Did Groves run today? What did he run?

3.) A 10 foot broad jump is an impressive display of explosion. Parcells must be salivating.

4.) Goff ran a 4.6? That's not too shabby. BB has to be looking hard at this guy.

Groves ran 4.57 40 according to NFLN. I can;t seem to find whether he did the VJ and agility drills.

PatsandTrojans55 · 02-25-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PonyExpress

AD is a very good player and I have been one of those that has defended him against a lot of critics this season. But he has neither the ability to bend off the edge, nor the play to play discipline/intensity/hand usage of C. Long.

I can't stop laughing about your comparing a rookie whom may or may not be the best D-Lineman in this draft let alone a LBer to a multiple Pro Bowl, Super Bowl LBer who has played DE,OLB,ILB,S, and Corner in the NFL and your saying a College DE is more talented then him. Like I said this kid wouldn't beat out Colvin or Vrabel the first year at least if we drafted him. He's a good prospect but he is overhyped because of his lineage. And he isn't more talented than much of our defense at this point until he PROVES It.

sebman2112 · 02-25-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primetime

The meteoric rise of combine superstars that happens year after year says very differently.

Groves had already run fast forty times, and he holds the school sack record at Auburn. He also recorded 26 QB hurries in 2007 while fighting through dislocated toes. I wouldn't at all consider him one of those "combine superstars", and maybe this will get him into the discussion at 12th-16th overall, if the Patriots were to trade down into that range. I've thought he had the talent, size, motor, attitude, strength and athletic ability to be considered that high, but his injuries in 2007 effected his stock.

I do think it's funny that he went from being considered the 2nd or 3rd DE/OLB prospect by a number of scouts (early in the 2007 season) to being considered the 6th-8th guy by some of those same scouts, when it wasn't his lack of ability, but an injury that effected him in 2007, and he's obviously healthy now.

Here are some youtube videos (seems everyone loves those now)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0tGL...eature=related (watch it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZCxh...eature=related (watch it)

I was just reading an SI.com article that has Groves as the 4th ranked LB in the draft (They didn't include Chris Long or Gholston), and they echoed some of my beliefs:

Quote:

4. Quentin Groves, Auburn, OLB: The Tigers' career sack leader (26) has all of the tools to be an excellent 3-4 rush end/linebacker. Blessed with an explosive first step and excellent closing quickness, Groves is a dynamic rusher off the edge with the potential to produce game-changing plays. Although injuries slowed his production this season, Groves' athleticism and speed make him a highly coveted prospect. If Groves posts impressive workout numbers and shows that he is recovered from his nagging injuries, he may climb the charts as 3-4 outside linebacker.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....lb/index.html

sebman2112 · 02-25-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PonyExpress

Groves ran 4.57 40 according to NFLN. I can;t seem to find whether he did the VJ and agility drills.

Yea, Groves official time was 4.57 (great for a 6'3" 250lbs LB), and Goff officially ran a 4.63.

PonyExpress · 02-25-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsandTrojans55

I can't stop laughing about your comparing a rookie whom may or may not be the best D-Lineman in this draft let alone a LBer to a multiple Pro Bowl, Super Bowl LBer who has played DE,OLB,ILB,S, and Corner in the NFL and your saying a College DE is more talented then him. Like I said this kid wouldn't beat out Colvin or Vrabel the first year at least if we drafted him. He's a good prospect but he is overhyped because of his lineage. And he isn't more talented than much of our defense at this point until he PROVES It.

I can't stop laughing at you because you don't know talent when you see it. Predicting a college player's ability is the staple of college scouting. Why do you think so many scouts believe Long may be the #1 selection in the whole f'ing draft, to a team that plays the 3-4? Because he can't play for the Patriots? The joke's on you, genius.

PatsandTrojans55 · 02-25-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PonyExpress

I can't stop laughing at you because you don't know talent when you see it. Predicting a college player's ability is the staple of college scouting. Why do you think so many scouts believe Long may be the #1 selection in the whole f'ing draft, to a team that plays the 3-4? Because he can't play for the Patriots? The joke's on you, genius.

Actually the jokes on you my friend. Matt Ryan has been mentioned more as the consensus #1 than Long. The reason Long is being rumored as a number 1 is because Virginia plays a 3-4 and Miami has Parcells and needs a pass rush Defensive End and because everybodies trying to guess what Parcells is going to do and because they think Dorsey is not a 3-4 NT or End and they are simply guessing based on a team need not neccesarily based on talent. That why everybody had Bush to the Texans over Mario Williams. But hey nice try shedding light on it for me.

By the way if we Drafted Long would BB and Pioli say he's a starter at DE or OLB right away and that he's the most talented player they've ever drafted or that they have on defense right now as you suggest. I HIGHLY Doubt it.

jeffbiologist · 02-25-2008, 04:39 PM

WOW, just saw C.Longs combine.....WoW again! This guy is the sure fire #1 now. He was as good or better than just about everybody in just about everything...all without a SINGLE mis-step. No stumbles. No do overs. Low hips,fluid motion, good motor, great agility. To me this makes things a little more clear because NO DOUBT Miami will take him #1. We can now start putting mock drafts together below 1, no trades, no problems,no what-ifs. So much for him falling to us, trading up,etc....

***DaBruinz*** · 02-25-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsandTrojans55

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

4.71 isn't SLOW for a 275 lb OLB. You really need to know what you are talking about. Sheesh louise..

Gholston isn't much faster for being 20 lbs lighter. For Groves (who is also 20 lbs lighter than Long), it will be interesting to see how much speed he's lost due to his foot injury.

BTW, if you knew anything, you'd know that Chris Long isn't getting any hype because of his father. He's getting hype because he played for Virginia and Al Groh and projects as a 3-4 OLB.

***DaBruinz*** · 02-25-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsandTrojans55

I don't think I do, I'm just pointing out the facts. And yes there is a Big difference between a 4.52 and a 4.62 or 4.72 especially in a game of inches. You also need to look at the yard splits. Also, I believe the Patriots are changing they're philosophy to a more speed and playmaking ability. I believe they want athletic freaks who are also football players and they won't win with "JAG"'s or "Plug and Play players" anymore. Look at the personel acquisitions the last off-season. Speed,speed and playmakers.

What makes you believe this? Or are you just pulling it out of your arse?

A guy who runs a 4.71 - 40 at 272 lbs IS an athletic freak.

sebman2112 · 02-25-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBruinz

4.71 isn't SLOW for a 275 lb OLB. You really need to know what you are talking about. Sheesh louise..

Gholston isn't much faster for being 20 lbs lighter. For Groves (who is also 20 lbs lighter than Long), it will be interesting to see how much speed he's lost due to his foot injury.

BTW, if you knew anything, you'd know that Chris Long isn't getting any hype because of his father. He's getting hype because he played for Virginia and Al Groh and projects as a 3-4 OLB.

Minor corrections: Gholston is only 6lbs lighter than Chris Long.

Just an added note, Groves already recorded an official 4.57 forty.