Belichick uses short draft board (note: "25 players" debunked)

[crowell33]

Broncos, Patriots draft off a short board | ProFootballTalk.com

BB once had only 25 players on his draft board. Article gives unique view on the Patriot way.

[StraightCashHomey81]

I prefer to call it the "Jimmy Johnson List"

In "Patriot Reign: and "The Education of a Coach:, it is discussed how Belichick applies advice he received from Jimmy Johnson regarding the NFL Draft. Johnson, the head coach and architect of the Dallas Cowboys dynasty of the 1990s, is widely considered one of the best Draft Day decision makers in NFL history. Throughout his time with Dallas, he was able to parlay veteran players and high picks into multiple picks that produced players that built three Super Bowl champions (sound familiar?). He even helped to invent a chart that assigned a numerical value to every pick in the draft, which is still used in varying degrees by NFL teams to make draft day trades today.
Johnson advised Belichick to make a list of twenty to thirty prospects, made up of likely 1st and 2nd day picks that he would like to add to the Patriots, and find a way to get as many of them at the right value as possible.

For example, before the 2004 NFL Draft, Belichick had four players in mind for their first pick of the draft, #21 overall: Vince Wilfork, Deangelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, and Jonathan Vilma (they drafted Wilfork). The rest of his first day list included a few players at various positions, including eventual Patriots draft picks Tight End Ben Watson, Defensive End Marquise Hill, and safeties Gus Scott and Dexter Reid.

[Armchair Quarterback]

Originally Posted by StraightCashHomey81

I prefer to call it the "Jimmy Johnson List"

In "Patriot Reign: and "The Education of a Coach:, it is discussed how Belichick applies advice he received from Jimmy Johnson regarding the NFL Draft. Johnson, the head coach and architect of the Dallas Cowboys dynasty of the 1990s, is widely considered one of the best Draft Day decision makers in NFL history. Throughout his time with Dallas, he was able to parlay veteran players and high picks into multiple picks that produced players that built three Super Bowl champions (sound familiar?). He even helped to invent a chart that assigned a numerical value to every pick in the draft, which is still used in varying degrees by NFL teams to make draft day trades today.
Johnson advised Belichick to make a list of twenty to thirty prospects, made up of likely 1st and 2nd day picks that he would like to add to the Patriots, and find a way to get as many of them at the right value as possible.

For example, before the 2004 NFL Draft, Belichick had four players in mind for their first pick of the draft, #21 overall: Vince Wilfork, Deangelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, and Jonathan Vilma (they drafted Wilfork). The rest of his first day list included a few players at various positions, including eventual Patriots draft picks Tight End Ben Watson, Defensive End Marquise Hill, and safeties Gus Scott and Dexter Reid.

I'm not very happy knowing this, espicially if this is the result.

[upstater1]

Deangelo Hall is interesting because clearly he's a head case that made the list.

Belichick is nothing if not thorough, so you can bet he has gone back to his notes to check to see if this method works. If, for instance, he had ex-ed guys out for personality issues prior to the draft, has he checked to see how many of those questionable characters have performed in the NFL? Are they problematic now? Compared to players with solid characters? For instance, what if someone had Deangelo Hall and Dunta Robinson as solid citizens, but had eliminated Chris Gamble and Pacman Jones from consideration? Do you go back and say, WOW, Deangelo is a wacko, but Chris Gamble hasn't caused any trouble. Do you add it all up and say, my methods for looking at character traits are only 50% correct--and therefore useless. Or is he on target 75% of the time--and therefore the shortlist is valuable.

After a decade of drafting, BB no doubt has looked back to see if the shortlist works.

[StraightCashHomey81]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

I'm not very happy knowing this, espicially if this is the result.

I think criticism of the Patriots drafting should be directed not on their philosophy in approaching the draft (finding value, system fit, short board, etc) but rather their evaluation of available players. On the surface, the idea of simply picking the players you really want on your team seems obvious; something every NFL team would do. However, too many teams pick players for the sake of picking more players, whether it is because of fan/media pressure or a desperate and false hope that by simply picking more players, they will have a better chance of finding good players. This goes to the Patriots steadfast belief in value. By sticking to their board, the Patriots can select players for whom they have a strong conviction on and then use other draft choices to trade up or acquire higher picks in subsequent drafts. If you want to critique the Pats in regards to the draft, focus on who they select, not on how they select them.

[mgteich]

Yes, we have 12 picks. Let's see what we get. Could we do as well as last year when, one year later, all 12 (plus an UDFA) are expected to make the 53 man squad or the Practice Squad? Will we be able to secure four 2011 starters?
====================================
Last year, we ended up with 9 players who made the roster, 1 on the Practice Squad and 2 on IR, plus we had an UDFA make the squad. Presumebly that meant 10 useful picks.

There were four players who got considerable playing time and are expected to start in 2010: Vollmer, Butler, Edelman and Ingram.

There are at least two more that should be contributers in 2010 (two out of Tate, Pryor, Chung, McKenzie, Brace and Ohrnberger).

Hoyer is our backup QB and should be a #2 or #3.

The remaining two are likely to be on the Practice Squad: Bussey and Richard.
==============================================

Originally Posted by StraightCashHomey81

. If you want to critique the Pats in regards to the draft, focus on who they select, not on how they select them.

[DaBruinz]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

I'm not very happy knowing this, espicially if this is the result.

Why not? Is Belichick supposed to be clairvoyant and know that Guss Scott is going to blow his knee out 2 years straight?

Is Belichick supposed to know that Marquise Hill is going to die prior to the start of the kid's 4th season.

Is Belichick supposed to know that Watson would blow his knee out 2 games into his rookie season???

Seriously, some people need to use their brain and not just react.

Dexter Reid was a 4th round pick. He spent 2 years with the Pats before he was cut. But during those two years, the kid was excellent on special teams, but a poor back-up on the field.

[Armchair Quarterback]

Originally Posted by StraightCashHomey81

I think criticism of the Patriots drafting should be directed not on their philosophy in approaching the draft (finding value, system fit, short board, etc) but rather their evaluation of available players. On the surface, the idea of simply picking the players you really want on your team seems obvious; something every NFL team would do. However, too many teams pick players for the sake of picking more players, whether it is because of fan/media pressure or a desperate and false hope that by simply picking more players, they will have a better chance of finding good players. This goes to the Patriots steadfast belief in value. By sticking to their board, the Patriots can select players for whom they have a strong conviction on and then use other draft choices to trade up or acquire higher picks in subsequent drafts. If you want to critique the Pats in regards to the draft, focus on who they select, not on how they select them.

I have many times in many other threads about many of their draft choices (one even earlier today). Now I find out that they may have been picking from a board of only 25 and it might explain some of their choices. A short draft board IMO will most likely result in reaching for and/or over-drafting players. In the '04 draft the Pats picked Watson with the 32nd pick and Marquise Hill with the 63rd. The Arizona Cardinals picked Karlos Dansby with the 33rd and Darnell Dockett with the 64th. It's not up for debate as to who are the better players and I am taking into consideration what happened to Hill- in three years he played in 13 games and had 2 tackles. Jared Allen was taken after both Scott and Reid and Michael Turner was drafted after Cedric Cobbs. If their board really was only 25 that year and it had Hill, Scott, Reid and Cobbs on it it may explain some curious choices. Where any of Dockett, Dansby, Allen or Turner even on their board? If they weren't and the guys the drafted were, then it is a flawed system.

[sbpatfan]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

I have many times in many other threads about many of their draft choices (one even earlier today). Now I find out that they may have been picking from a board of only 25 and it might explain some of their choices. A short draft board IMO will most likely result in reaching for and/or over-drafting players. In the '04 draft the Pats picked Watson with the 32nd pick and Marquise Hill with the 63rd. The Arizona Cardinals picked Karlos Dansby with the 33rd and Darnell Dockett with the 64th. It's not up for debate as to who are the better players and I am taking into consideration what happened to Hill- in three years he played in 13 games and had 2 tackles. Jared Allen was taken after both Scott and Reid and Michael Turner was drafted after Cedric Cobbs. If their board really was only 25 that year and it had Hill, Scott, Reid and Cobbs on it it may explain some curious choices. Where any of Dockett, Dansby, Allen or Turner even on their board? If they weren't and the guys the drafted were, then it is a flawed system.

One word: hindsight.

[MaineMan]

Originally Posted by crowell33

Broncos, Patriots draft off a short board | ProFootballTalk.com

BB once had only 25 players on his draft board. Article gives unique view on the Patriot way.

Once.

Reportedly once. PFT calls it "The Rumor Mill" for a reason, y'know.

Interesting how this immediately becomes "the Patriot Way" solely under the control of BB (as if Pioli and Dimitroff never had any input).

So, sure, I can see the Pats often doing somewhat more extensive "pre-weeding" than perhaps many other teams, but I'm certain the actual prospect count varies widely from year-to-year and position-to-position.