Nestapats

This is exactly what i'm talking about: "He ran this, he got pushed around" I know he got pushed around at the senior bowl, but in games??? if you truly have seen games of him play with my glasses on, you would see a FOOTBALL player. Someone with instincts and a certain package of qualities. We're not looking at the complete package here, neither with Barwin. But the guys can bring certain aspects of their game to complement this defense. BB always looks at guys who can fill a role on this team, not to take on all the duties. I personally feel like Maualuga is a player who can complement Mayo and fill the footsteps of Bruschi. I've seen alot of USC games this year and i value more into the games, than into running a 40 time on a shaky hamstring. Clearly we don't agree on how good he is. I think he's a mid to late first round guy, but players always excel or fit better in certain systems. I just feel like Maualuga fits our need and system and i think he would excel here. Therefore moving up to grab him doesn't seem to me like a reach, because he's the player you seek.

Further, i know they like athletes i never said that and i have alot of athletes/versatile guys taken in my draft (D.J. Moore, Barwin) . I just think Barwin is a high risk player because of the overhype on numbers, instead of actual football.
Wheatley btw was also considered a reach, but they took him because of his fluid hips, which i believe was considered a very important thing for a pats CB. I feel D.J. Moore is a same type a CB and would fit the pats very well.

So what i'm basically trying to say here is that i don't put value into the analysis of some ESPN losers, but i already thought during the season (even last year), that Rey would be a good fit for the Pats. I konw we don't know what the pats board looks like and for all we know he drafts Ramses Barden at 23, but if i just look at position need and what we need specifically at the position, than i feel Maualuga is a good fit.

mayoclinic

Now maybe the anti-Barwin group can start a "draft Barden, not Barwin" petition.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Box_O_Rocks

If those scouts are working for the NE Patriots I'd be more interested in their opinion.

Maybin - The kid reportedly needed to work to add 20 pounds between the Rose Bowl and the Combine so he could stay at DE in the NFL. I think he is a good kid who came out too early, he's not physically ready to play in the NFL. Further, he didn't impress me in the Rose Bowl, which was the only game I got to see of him. Right now he appears to be too one dimensional. The very same negatives people throw out for Barwin apply to him, with less athletic talent and fewer intangibles in mitigation.

E.Brown - Again someone who just pins his ears back and goes. I saw one game and that's what I saw. His profile on NFL Draft Scout is the most detailed analysis of his game I've found and it questions his ability to play in space as a LB. His run defense score is much lower than Barwins, when I look at the numbers side by side Barwin is a more balanced prospect with more room to develop and improve. The profile suggests his best fit is some place like Indy playing like Dwight Freeney - not a good fit for NE.

Orakpo - Again, Barwin the first year wonder is a more consistent and balanced player across the board if you believe the analysis of NFLDS. The brief clips of him testing in space on Path to the Draft suggest he's scary stiff - which isn't good.

Matthews - Didn't start until his redshirt senior year, I can't name any of the players he was trapped behind at USC when it comes to dazzling NFL careers. He needs at least 10 more pounds to play well as a NE OLB and I question how easy that will be for him to make and maintain. The biggest knock on him is being trained in a Pete Carrol system where he's taught to run around blockers and to try and make a play on speed alone. He just projects better as a 4-3 WLB. 4.5 sacks last season despite five years of working inside the USC system, I just don't think he's that effective as pass rusher.

Cushing - He's the best NE 3-4 LB prospect coming out of USC, and I think he's another bad fit who projects better as a 4-3 Sam. He needs to be heavier for NE, and the reports of his supplement use and training don't encourage me to believe he could make and easily maintain his weight. 3 sacks his senior year, and he reportedly was removed on passing downs...

English - I watched him in a couple games, good pass rush, decent against the run, looked too slow and stiff to be very effective in coverage. May have to move to ILB and be a two down player.

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Box_O_Rocks

I didn't watch a lot of USC last season, but I've been watching for Maualuga the past two seasons given all the hype for his playing skill, especially after the Oscar Lua crush that swept this board... You see 'instinct,' I see hesitance. You see game speed, I see a player who sits back and waits for others to absorb the blockers while he looks for the ball, then he turns into a missle in 'fire and forget' mode that has just as many misses as big hits because he doesn't play under control. You see strength and power, I see him disappear the moment a blocker gets his hands on him, his Rose Bowl this year was pathetic, Maiava is a much better LB for NE compared to Maualuga - he I'd use as a S/LB hybrid at least. Maualuga face plants 'every blasted time' someone cut blocks him, EVERY time, he absolutely sucks getting through trash. People want another Ted Johnson knocking OL backwards or another Bruschi disappearing amidst the OL and popping out of some crease to make the stick on the RB in the hole - Maualuga does none of that on "my" TV screen. I will say the guy does a very good job of playing an underneath zone and getting his hands on passes trying to loop over his head, but in two years of catching the occasional USC game on TV, I have never seen this guy go head to head with an OL and win. I'll take the kid who has done that on my TV screen, whether it's Barwin for OLB or TCU's Jason Phillips at ILB.

Sure, but in watching Mike Vrabel, Willie McGinest, Rosie Colvin, Adalius, Pierre, Tully, all play OLB for NE, I see Connor Barwin in that role and say he's a natural. Last year I really wanted Chris Long to drop because I could see him playing OLB with a WillieMac power game, shutting down the run, powering through blockers on the pass rush, and doing 'okay' in zone coverage. Barwin makes Long look flat, he's got speed and quickness Long doesn't, Barwin knocked down 7 passes because he finds the ball even while fighting with an OT - I've seen him push off the tackle he was hand fighting and sky to bat down a pass. I've seen him stack up TEs and OTs and fight through them to make a tackle on a RB. On "my" TV screen he's also a "football" player, and one who does the things I've seen Vrabel and Co. doing for years in NE uniforms. That's why I see him as a better "fit."

I appreciate that he's the player you seek. I also appreciate that you've watched him and saw the qualities you want to see in a NE ILB. I wish the two of us could sit down and watch Coach's tape together and point out what we're both seeing over a couple brews and munchies - I'd probably being throwing popcorn at the TV and making the dog fatter, but we'd have fun.
I first posted about Barwin at the end of November, well before any "numbers" came in. I'm pretty sure that I've got at least one pre-Combine post valuing him as a first round worthy talent. The numbers were just proof of what I saw in actual games.

Fair enough, if I was pulling the trigger Maualuga wouldn't even be on my board. I'd be praying for Rex Ryan to draft him at #17, because I could slip Dan Koppen out on him and leave him buried in the turf. To each his own.

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mayoclinic

Not that it will ever happen, but I'd gladly trade #47 to the Jets for David Harris. They could take Maualuga at #17 and pair him with Bart Scott. I'd be quite happy with Harris at SILB next to Mayo.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Box_O_Rocks

I was seriously bummed when BB bundled a third and second to take Chad Jackson - I watched the Eagles take another "raw" defensive end from a small school, Chris Gocong. He's only been the starting Sam on a Jim Johnson pressure defense the past two years. The next year I watch BB sit tight and let the Eagles grab Stewart Bradley in the third round about four picks or so before NE picked - I later read a Reiss note commenting on how unhappy the draft room at Gillette was over that move. Bradley took over the MLB job as a rookie and has been super.

Losing Barwin will be par for the course if that happens, I'll survive and probably be cussing everytime I see him starting for another team. The good news out of that heartbreak, the Pats drafted my #1 ILB candidate last year, he wound up playing pretty good. They eventually obtained three of my OLB prospects - Guyton, Craig, and Robertson. Robertson was waived, but Pioli snatched him up, which means Craig must have been playing pretty well in practice..and we know about Guyton. I liked David Harris and Lamar Woodley as second rounders, both have done an adequate job. I'm fairly satisfied that I've got a rudimentary grasp of what will make a good NE LB. If Everette Brown were drafted by BB, I'd shrug and watch how he was used in preseason to try and learn what I may have missed, I had to do that with Crable whom I did not have on my board, but mostly for inconsistency reports in draftnik profiles. Redd wasn't on my board for his character/maturity issues that got him kicked off UVA's team. I'll live, I'll learn, I'll fight with you and mav and have fun doing it and we'll all be hooting and hollering at our TVs come the Fall.

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Isaac

This thread is about BB philosophy yet it is missing one of the most dominant themes of this philosophy--versatility. The question is whether the team considers Barwin as a legitimate active-roster #3 TE. Barwin has noted that his meetings with the team have been with offensive coaches as much as defensive. If he is a #3 TE, it saves the team an active and game-day roster spot--this is not to be taken lightly. Even if he is ranked similarly to other OLB prospects or as an OLB is considered something like mid-second round value, this attribute could easily put his value at #23 to the Patriots.

He's also a stand-out special teamer.

(Of course he could be a #23 value even without the TE attribute, if he is otherwise rated higher than the other candidates.)

Lockdown06

I don't want to cause instigation or anything, and this might be me completely showing my ignorance, but wouldn't matthews have backed up Rivers?

mayoclinic

If Philly takes Barwin at 21 (or if we pass at 23 and they take him at 28) I'll be steamed. I was annoyed at Bradley. I didn't like the Jackson trade either, but I didn't have Gocong as squarley in my sights as you (I did prefer Greg Jennings at WR though).

If we miss out on Barwin or any other prospect, we'll all move on.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

Box_O_Rocks

He may have, I never followed USC that closely, but Rivers, like Matthews, started as a Safety was moved to OLB. Rivers played around 235, he was 241 for the Combine, then down to 233 or something for his Pro Day which was when I pulled him off my board and bumped Mayo up to the top of the ILB list. Matthews saw time at DE as a reserve and starter last season, so he's got much more versatility and deserves to be in the discussion, it's just that Petey Carroll really uses his LBs so much differently than BB does, so when I see Matthews play I see his speed, but not his power - and power is a key component in NE football if you're going to win the Line of Scrimmage. Thanks for the comment on Rivers, it's a good comparison to a guy we were discussing as an ILB this time last year.

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