stelfans

Lets see how the Talib/Dennard/Mccourty trio plays the rest of the year but i really liked what i saw.

If this 3 come along like we expect them to, we will still need a safety and corner but i hope they take a long look at the LB position. We need someone with speed.

manxman2601

Would we. Sounds like McCourty has been given the safety spot the rest of the year so the Pats obviously like him there. If Talib re-signs and Dennard progresses, then at best we are only looking at needing depth for the secondary:

S: McCourty
Wilson
Gregory
A.N. Other

CB: Talib
Dennard
Dowling

And that's assuming we don't re-sign Chung and Arrington. I can see a need for another good CB because Dowling can't be relied upon, but I really don't see a need to draft a S high if this is how things pan out.

Avenger

I think it is safe to assume that Talib is going to resign. The response to the question looked really genuine saying he'd love to stay. That leaves the 2nd Safety spot and the Nickel Corner up for grabs, Maybe Wilson is ready for that 2nd Safety spot in his second year. I'd keep Dowling, but I wouldn't rely on him. His Talent is unquestionable, but hasn't been able to stay on the field. Tyrann Mathieu seems to have made the good decision (for once) to stay away from Baton Rouge, maybe we take a chance on his as the Nickel Corner. Getting out of that environment could be just what he needs.

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manxman2601

Talib, Dennard, Mathieu and Glass-IR is serious potential for implosion. I'd like at least one CB that could be relied upon not to be banned, arrested or IR-ed for the season.

And who's to say Arrington won't be re-signed. Will likely be cheap and BB really likes him. Actually thought he played quite well after the 1st quarter yesterday in a more limited role.

stelfans

Agreed. Altough a guy like Elam along with those 3 would be nice

We'll see, maybe Wilson develops well.

A corner is still a big need imo, i dont think we need a stud but a reliable guy, ie, i hope i dont have to see Arrington in a pats uniform ever again

Avenger

You have to admit that that secondary would play with swagger.

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patfanken

WOW Mayo. Talk about being prescient. Not only did you call the trade for Talib, you called the draft pick. Kudos for that. The rest of your "grand plan" is following nicely as well. McCourty seems heading toward a permanent place at S, Dennard at the 2nd outside CB, with Chung and Arrington headed out the door. The Powerball is tomorrow and I need some help with my numbers.

However assuming Talib can be resigned for reasonable money (and what would that be btw?), Dowling can return both healthy and effective, and Dennard's maturation continues on pace. I still feel the need to add another strong CB to the mix, preferably someone with some experience and size.

As to safety, if McCourty stays and flourishes at the FS positon, I think he makes Gregory redundant as a starter. The problem I have with a safety combo of Wilson, Gregory, and McCourty is size. We really need a big thumper back in the secondary, but someone who is more than "just" a SS.

Supposedly, because so many good safety prospects went back to school last year, this year is supposed to be especially deep at the Safety positon. Who are the guys who could be that "thumper' for us.

BTW- I'd be against drafting an offensive lineman during the first 2 days. Between Solder, Volmer (assuming he's resigjned) Cannon, McDonald, Wendell, and Thomas, we already have a nice young group of offensive linemen to go along with seasoned vets that we've already committed to in Mankins and Connolly. That's 8 guys right there already, and that's before you see who might be there in FA and the rest of the young guys currently in Dante's Academy for extra large ballerinas. Using a pick that high on the OL would be a luxury we can't afford imho.

No Mayo, the only offensive position that merits a pick in the first 2 days is a WR, preferably someone over 6'3. I like your idea of a mini-speedster, but I thought that was what Jeff Demps is for. We desperately need to radially improve the age demographic at WR. So I'd be willing to use a pick in the first 3 round on a WR. The rest of those first picks in the first 2 days need to keep on going to the defense. Ideally at S and the DL. As far as day 3 goes....anything goes. Go for the "BPA", I don't care about the position. They are all just shots in the dark anyway.

Last draft the Pats did a fantastic job getting 3 guys who play major roles on the regular defense at the top of the draft and 2 guys at the bottom of the draft, one who starts and another who has a major role on multiple special teams. Plus a 6th guy who looks like he's on a red shirt year. That should be the goal. Finding 5 guys who can find roles immediately, and can ultimately turn into at least 3 starters within 3 years.

BB has successfully rebuilt this team to finish out the Brady era. Major reconstruction is over. For the next few years what is necessary is doing the finish work. Numbers in the draft aren't the big thing now. Upgrading and finding playmakers are. What The long term planing BB should be thinking about is slowly over time building up his draft numbers so in 4 or 5 years when he has to start "reconstruction" again, he will have the 10-12 picks for 3 years to do it on the fly again.

BTW-the #1 goal for me isn't to find that DE to pair opposite Jones, rather its to find the interior pass rushing DT. IMHO the premium need for EVERY team in the NFL is the interior guy who can push the pocket. With all the 3 step drops, shotgun formations, and spread formations the ball is coming out of the QB's hands faster than ever. Its making it harder and harder for an edge rusher, even a great one, to make a difference. Just look at what the Pats did to Freeney and Mathis.

No what hurts the Pats is the team that can create pressure up the middle, doesn't let the QB step up, makes him feel uncomfortable right away. THAT's the guy I want, but unfortunately its the guy EVERYONE wants. Find me THAT guy Mayo....and make it so he'll be available after the 30th pick in the draft.

mayoclinic

Ken, I'm only going to address your comments on the secondary here. I'll address the other stuff separately.

CB

Let's start with the CB position. I believe that you need at least 3 good press-man CBs plus depth at the dime/ST. The options on the roster right now include:

- Aqib Talib. The best CB on the roster, asusming McCourt's move to FS is permanent, as it appears to be. Assuming he stays clean, he needs to be signed long term. So far he's shown an ability to pick things up quickly, an eagerness to fit in, and a nice work ethic. He seems to crave being accepted. It may all be a false front, but I'm betting that with a strong team structure he'll be able to stay relatively clean. What will it take to keep him? I'm guessing somewhere between the $24M/4 years ($6M/year) that we gave Leigh Bodden in 2010 and the roughly $50M/5 years ($10M/year) that Brandon Carr and Cortland Finnegan got this year, depending on how he does over the rest of the season. His history will obviously weigh against him, but if he performs well and the Pats secondary improves markedly it will improve his market value. Good CBs don't come cheap.

- Alfonzo Dennard. Need to keep him at outside CB IMHO and develop him. If we had a veteran outside CB he could move to the slot, but he has good skills and tenacity. He's been compared in style to a young Charles Tillman. I'm sure he'll have some bumps, but I'm willing to stick with him. Except for the bar fight, he's never had a character issue.

- Ras-I Dowling. Would be a great guy opposite Talib if he could stay healthy and develop, but he's on IR for the 2nd straight year and is a huge question mark. The coaching staff and FO needs to seriously evaluate him this offseason in deciding whether to pursue another veteran or rookie CB.

- Marquice Cole. Great STer, good dime. Could he be more? He's shown flashes.

- Kyle Arrington. Had 8 INTs last year, deteriorated big time this year. Has been a major liability. Is in a contract year. Is there a role for him, and can he be kept at a reasonable price?

- Sterling Moore. On the PS, could be a cheap alternative to Arrington.

I think there's room for another CB in there, but a lot depends on the long term outlook for Talib and Dowling. If Talib is extended and the coaching staff still believes in Dowling, a major investment may not be warranted. I know that most fans don't have much confidence in Dowling right now, but we don't know the details of his injury situation, why the team chose to shut him down for the season, or what his long term prognosis is.

There may be some decent FAs available in addition to re-signing Talib: DRC, Brent Grimes. But the market cost may be prohibitive.

Safety

Unlike you, I'm not particularly interested in the "big thumper". I think those guys are Dinosaurs in today's NFL. Hyrbid CB/S and coverage LB's have a role, but the big thumper S really doesn't fit. Coverage guys who can lay the lumber - now that's a different story.

I've never seen Steve Gregory as a starter. He's a white James Sanders, perhaps with a bit more coverage ability (but not much more). Good utility man, but not a starter under any stretch of the imagination. Nate Ebner is a developmetnal guy and STer. So the question is whether Tavon Wilson is likely to grow into a bona fide starter opposite Devin McCourty, or whether he will be a situational player. If the former, the Pats are fine at the safety position. If the latter, the Pats should probably jettison Gregory and go after either a veteran safety in FA (Goldson, Byrd, Reed) or an impact rookie (Elam). I personally don't favor more youth in the secondary, as I think we've had enough young players, and need some experience. I'd love to pair McCourty with someone like Dahson Goldson, but I just don't see him hitting FA, and the cost of keeping Talib and getting Goldson would be prohibitive.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

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manxman2601

Mayo


Like you, I'm a fan of McCourty at safety but I'm seriously intrigued by Amerson at safety with McCourty moving back to CB in partnership with Talib and Dennard at slot.

There are some things not to like about Amerson - he's not the quickest, relies too much on his ballhawking and isn't the greatest tackler. But...

I just can't get past the fact that he's a 6'3" ballhawk. I'm not saying he's the next Ed Reed, but he could have a similar impact on our defense and that is very appealing. I'm not in the place where I'd mock it, and the chances are, after his poor season he'll return for his senior year but for a team that values the turnover so much, one would have to think that BB too would be intrigued, especially considering how much more valuable he becomes the further he falls.

So:

Option A: CB - Talib, Dennard; S - McCourty, Wilson

Option B: CB - McCourty, Talib; S - Amerson, Wilson


Option B is appealing.

Sciz

Do you trust McCourty in man coverage in that scenario? One of my favorite things about McCourty at FS other than all of the stuff he does well is that it means he doesn't have to play man coverage against WRs.

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