mayoclinic

2. Pittsburgh Steelers

2005: Heath Miller, TE, Virginia (#30) - Miller has been a solid starter for 7 seasons for the Steelers, and has made the Pro Bowl once. Solid pick.
2005: Bryant McFadden, CB, FLorida St. (#62) - McFadden has been a solid if not spectacular CB for 7 seasons, 6 of them with the Steelers. OK/solid pick.
2006: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio St. (#25) - the Steelers traded up with the Giants to take Holmes, the top rated receiver in 2006. He had off-field and personality issues but was also a dynamic playmaker and helped the Steelers to 2 Super Bowls. Good pick.
2007: Lawrence Timmons, LB, Florida St. (#15) - Timmons was a bit of a surprise pick at #15. A speed rusher, he was then moved inside, where he has excelled, and is one of the best in the NFL. Great pick.
2007: LaMarr Woodley, DE/OLB, Michigan (#46) - Woodley has teamed with James Harrison to form the best 3-4 OLB combo in the NFL. Home run.
2008: Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois (#23) - the Steelers took Mendenhall ahead of Chris Johnson, Matt Forte and Ray Rice. He has showed flashes of briliance but also struggled with injuries and been somewhat controversial. His time may be over with the team. Meh/OK pick.
2008: Limas Sweed, WR, Texas (#53) - Sweed struggled with injuries and lasted all of 2 seasons with the Steelers, producing on 7 receptions. He is out of the league. Bust.
2009: Evander "Ziggy" Hood, DE, Missouri (#32) - the Steelers have not been as successful with their DE pipeline as with LBs. Hood became a starter in 2011, but has yet to perform at a consistently high level. Meh/OK pick.
2010: Maurkice Pouncey, OG/C, Florida (#18) - Pouncey was an immediate starter and Pro Bowl player as a rookie, and is one of the best interior linemen in the league. Home run.
2010: Jason Worilds, DE/OLB, Virginia Tech. (#52) - the Steelers have a strong track record of success with their OLBs and don't rush them. Worilds has not done much in 2 years, but it's too early to tell. Incomplete.
2011: Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio St. (#31) - as with Ziggy Hood, Heyward has not yet established himself, getting limited playing time as a rookie. That should change with the Steelers' youth movement in 2012. Incomplete.
2011: Marcus Gilbert, OT, Florida (#63) - Gilbert started 13 games as a rookie at RT in 2011, and looks like a solid pick so far.

The Steelers selected 12 players in the 1st and 2nd rounds during this 6 year period, for an average of 2/year, one of the lower totals on this list. Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, Maurkice Pouncey and Heath Miller have all been mainstays of the team. Santonio Holmes was extremely productive and the MVP of the 2009 Super Bowl, but was also a personality problem and was traded away. Rashard Mendall has also been productive but erratic and controversial, and may move on. Limas Sweed has been the most obvious bust to date, but recent picks other than Maurkice Pouncey have progressed slowly, and are all works in progress. Whether that changes with the Steelers' youth movement in 2012 remains to be seen. But the drafting since 2008 leaves something to be desired.

1. New England Patriots

2005: Logan Mankins, OG, Fresno St. (#32) - a WTF? pick when it was first announced, Mankins has been a multiple Pro Bowl guard and mainstay of the Pats OL. Brilliant pick.
2006: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota (#21) - the Pats were lauded for their aggressive selection of Maroney and Chad Jackson in 2006, but it backfired. Maroney showed flashes but battled injuries, and then regressed. He is out of the league. Meh/bust.
2006: Chad Jackson, WR, Florida (#36) - Jackson had all of the physical tools and nothing else. He lasted 2+ seasons and did nothing. Bust.
2007: Brandon Meriweather, S, Miami (#24) - Meriweather made 2 Pro Bowls for the Patriots but never really fit the team's style or met expectations. He freelanced too mcuh and gave up too many big plays. He was released prior to 2011. Meh.
2008: Jerod Mayo, LB, Tennessee (#10) - considered a slight reach, Mayo has been a cornerstone of the defense and a multiple Pro Bowl player. Great pick.
2008: Terrance Wheatley, CB, Colorado (#62) - also considered a reach. Wheatley battled injuries and never produced. The Pats took Wheatley one pick ahead of Terrell Thomas. Bust.
2009: Pat Chung, S, Oregon (#34) - acquired via a pick from the Matt Cassel trade, Chung has been a solid core player in the secondary and provides a physical presence missing since Rodney Harrison. Solid pick.
2009: Ron Brace, DL, Boston College (#40) - the Pats traded up from #47 with Oakland to select Brace in case Vince Wilfork could not be extended. They missed out on better players, especially Connor Barwin. Brace has never developed to warrant his 2nd round selection. Bust.
2009: Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut (#41) - Butler was considered a steal in the second round, but after a promising rookie season he regressed and lost confidence. He was released after 2 seasons. Bust.
2009: Sebastian Vollmer, OT, Houston (#58) - considered a huge reach, Vollmer has become the best RT in the NFL. Back problems held him back last year, but he is a beast when healthy. Home run.
2010: Devin McCourty, DB, Rutgers (#27) - the Pats traded back twice to take McCourty ahead of the more heralded Kyle Wilson. McCourty made the Pro Bowl as a rookie, and despite some sophomore struggles looks like the best CB from the 2010 class. Excellent pick.
2010: Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona (#42) - the Pats traded up 2 spots with Oakland to take Gronkowski ahead of Baltimore. He slipped to the second round on injury concerns, which have not yet materialized. Gronk has set the bar for the TE position at an all time high in only 2 years. Grand slam.
2010: Jermaine Cunningham, DE/OLB, Florida (#53) - another "reach" pick, the Pats took Cunningham ahead of guys like Sean Lee and Carlos Dunlap. He played well as a rookie but then regressed last year. Incomplete.
2010: Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida (#62) - Spikes has provided a physical presence in the middle and some playmaking ability, with some off-field distrations mixed in. When healthy, he is a significant addition to the defense. Good pick.
2011: Nate Solder, OT, Colorado (#17) - the Pats surprised many by passing on DLs in the rich 2011 draft and taking Solder, who was considered to have high upside but to not be ready. He immediately contributed at both RT and LT as a rookie and played at a high level, and should be the starting LT for the next decade. Excellent pick.
2011: Ras-I Dowling, DB, Virginia (#33) - the Pats again surprised many by passing up a pass rusher for Dowling, a 1st round talent who slipped due to injuries. He played well for 2 games as a starter before being placed on IR. Incomplete, but promising.
2011: Shane Vereen, RB, Cal (#56) - the Pats passed on Mark Ingram and traded back for Vereen, surprising many. He has tremendous tools, but a holdout and a short pre-season followed by injuries essentially sunk his rookie year. Incomplete.

The Patriots drafted 17 players in the 1st and 2nd rounds over this 6 year period, tied for Green Bay for the most players drafted. That does not include the #31 pick in 2008 which was taken away for Spygate, or the #62 pick in 2007 which was traded to Miami for Wes Welker. Counting the Welker trade that works out to 3 picks/year, the most of any team on this list.

The Patriots have had both major successes and failures. Logan Mankins, Rob Gronkowski, Jerod Mayo and Sebastian Vollmer have all made Pro Bowl or All Pro status, and are elite performers at their positions. Nate Solder had a strong rookie season and looks like a franchise left tackle. Pat Chung is a solid fixture at safety. Brandon Spikes provides a physical presence in the middle. But there have some 1st round picks who underperformed (Laurence Maroney and Brandon Meriweather) and a number of 2nd round failures, include CBs Terrance Wheatley and Darius Butler, DL Ron Brace, and WR Chad Jackson. The jury is still out on Ras-I Dowling (who looked promising in limited action as a rookie) and Shane Vereen. And Jermaine Cunningham had a promising rookie year but is a question mark.

I'm not sure what all this shows. But I don't think that any of the "elite" drafting teams have been without their major misses in both the 1st and 2nd rounds. The draft a crapshoot, despite all the effort and analysis that goes into it, and the Pats do as well or better than most. Diversification seems to be a major part of their strategy.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

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mayoclinic

I put all of this together last month, and had someone else put it out on the other board. So all of the work was already done. But thanks.

I made a huge mistake last year of evaluating JJ Watt too early. Watt was a relatively new convert to the DE position, and in the tape I saw of him from earlier in the year he was somewhat stiff. Box commented on this as well, and I think considered him more of a developmental guy. But Watt progressed at an incredible rate, and by the end of the season he was a totally different player. Probably as a result, I wasn't as high on him as several other people were, and I was dead wrong.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

ZoisKing

Are those breakdowns ranked in any way mayo? If not, what's your opinion on who's drafted better?

mayoclinic

They are all very good drafting teams, so it's subjective. But I sort of roughly grouped them according to post-season success:

- Teams 1, 2, 3 were the teams that won multiple Super Bowls in the past decade: New England, Pittsburgh and the Giants. I probably consider them the 3 best drafting teams.

- Teams 4-7 were teams that won a single Super Bowl in the past decade: Green Bay, Baltimore, New Orleans and Indy. The Colts had a reputation under Polian for superb system drafting, though that reputation has been tarnished recently and it may have had more of an effect during the late rounds than early on. The Saints have also had some stunning late round successes (Carl Nicks, Marques Colston). I think Baltimore and Green Bay can make a claim to be regarded in the same class as the Pats, Steelers and Giants in terms of their drafting.

- Teams 8-10 were teams that have "come close" but haven't won it all, especially Philly and San Diego. Houston belongs up there from a drafting point of view even though they've had less post-season success. The difference may be more of a failure of coaching than a failure of the FO.

Again, it's largely subjective. But that was my rationale.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

dryheat44

I'll also defend the Bethel Johnson pick every time. We got arguably the NFLs best kick returner and a good kick cover guy. I'd consider that a successful pick, and whatever we got from him as WR was gravy.

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mayoclinic

One thing to note is that for the 5 years between 2003 (Eugene Wilson) and 2009 (Pat Chung, Sebastian Vollmer) the Pats didn't have a successful 2nd round pick, not including trades:

2004: Pick 64 used on Marquise Hill, who never developed before his tragic death. Pick 56 was traded for Corey Dillon, which was a successful trade.

2005: Pats traded back from #64 with Baltimore for 3rd round picks in 2005 and 2006. Ellis Hobbs, taken with Baltimore's 3rd at 84 was reasonably succesful. Adam Terry, who the Ravens took at #64, hasn't done too much.

2006: Chad Jackson was the worst 2nd round pick of the BB era, and cost a third for a trade up, to boot.

2007: Pats traded out from #60 and got Wes Welker. Great trade.

2008: Pick 62 used on Terrance Wheatley, who never developed, in part due to injuries.

That's a pretty bleak stretch, and would be much worse if not for the Dillon and Welker trades.

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"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi

ctpatsfan77

OTOH:
(1) Note that the Pats only made three second-round draft picks in that span. Yeah, they went "0-for-3," but that's still better than "0-for-5."

(2) You can't really look at any of those picks and say "WTF were they thinking when they made that pick?" Yes, Jackson was a costly gamble that didn't pan out, but injuries also played a part in screwing things up here. Ditto for Wheatley.

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The Gr8est

You really are a workhorse mayo, and I certainly appreciate what you bring to the table.

As for what this shows, it shows that the Pats are as good, if not better, drafters than the other top teams, and the people who like to bash BB's drafting are either ignorant (which they no longer need to be if they read this thread), or they just want to be on the cutting edge of being able to identify a bust, and want to be able to proudly proclaim that they were the first person to identify player "X" as a bust.

That's a strange way to show fanhood IMO, but to each his own I guess.

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patchick

I purposely didn't include picks traded away, in order to focus on talent selection in round 2. But if you broaden it to "what did they get for their 2nd-round draft capital," the Pats come out even better.

Welker, Dillon and Hobbs all count in the success column, making it 10 successes from 17 picks (59%) -- incredibly, an average of a starter a year for the decade, just from round 2.

The Steelers pick up 1/2 a success on 2 more picks. (They traded a 2nd & a 4th for 2 3rds one year; 1 of the 2 panned out, and the 2nd-round pick gets half credit for each.) That gives them 4.5/10 (45%), with fewer than half as many starters added to the roster over the decade.

ZoisKing

Pick up half a success? Haha. That just sounds funny

When you look at what value the Pats have gotten for their 2nd rounders then they certainly come up as winners. Dillon and Welker were fantastic value in return for those spots.

I'm still kind of surprised that Butler didn't pan out. I liked him a whole lot after his rookie season and thought that he'd develop quite well. He nosedived quickly.

I think Chad Jackson is one reason the Patriots have strived so hard to find team captains and intelligent players to add to the mix. He was really the anti-Patriot in different respects, and it burned us. So based on the teams renewed high quality character talent search, you can add him into the successes column for his future draft contributions