2008 Draft Discussion Thread

[letekro]

Originally Posted by jeffbiologist

On each of your points, this time I will be more clear:

1-Woods and Crable played the same position for the same team. They were both "specimens", but they both were tagged with "lack of work ethic and desire" tags. I didnt say it, but some "expert" said it. Seeing how little Woods has improved on the field....and how little ANY MICHIGAN player besides TB has helped this team......well, I developed my hypothesis.

2-Kelly Washington was a 3rd rd BUST for Cincy, never made it above 5th best WR on THEIR team. He is lucky to have a job, and he may not if Aiken outplays him this summer. Shoot, those two might both be battling 5th-6th rounder Slater for 1 spot.....though I see Slater as a PS guy. Eckel, PLEASE. Next year we will likely have to replace 2 RBs(Morris,maybe Faulk), why not get one of those 2 STEALS in the 3rd rd and have him play STs for a year?? It will be one less pick we will need next year....when the draft for RBs wont be as good.

3-My take on the Pats(and likely most teams)is that they pretty much give 1st rounders starters jobs from the beginning(though they may not play right away-its assumed). If you look at the last 3 years drafts in particular it "seems" like we go into the draft with a set number of roster spots for rookies. There is usually a line in the draft class where you can draw the line and say "everyone below here is going to have a hard time making the team".
I have done a "study" on BBs drafting, and its "expertise". I think we do well identifying the guys we want as starters on this team and putting us in a position to draft them. FA and trades seem to be our specialty. Our typical draft over 7 years nets us 3 players a year who make the team. The first rounder starts, and every other year 1 other guy earns a starting spot. Its not impossible to earn a spot, it just happens once every other year.....You can come up with a reason why this happens(BB likes old guys) but I suggest that its not an efficient use of all of our chits in the draft....
We didnt get appreciative value for either of our draft day trades this year.
We didnt sign a veteran QB who would make ODonnell obsolete. Rookies are not good backup QBs.
Positions of percieved strength werent addressed at all--meaning we did NOT take any BPAs. It also means to me that we are a bit complacent along the OL and DL. New guys and competition are always good, and the older guys help transition new guys. We will likely need both next year so why not get ONE guy to push Wright or Britt?? To me its looks like they are tired of stocking other teams with our leftovers so they just stopped trying to train rookies.....

4-Blanket statements or not, how many times are there "above average" numbers of quality players turned out? RBs? WRs? OLs? If its DEEP one year it usually means it wont be so deep the next...because of all the juniors coming out this year.....We wont have a chance at guys like Charles/Smith/Manningham/Collins and the rest every year in the 3rd round...never mind having 3(!!) chances. Compare our drafts to that of Baltimore/Atlanta/KC who also had 3 3rd rounders. Now I dont pretend to think that we are like KC needing "6 starters", but its like this team isnt concerned about developing depth or risking veteran uprising. I look at a team like the Giants who DID it last year and looks to be doing it again this year.
Guys like Hairston and Slater have been taken above guys who were both available and with a better chance to help this team.
Continuing our practice of stocking next year's shelves has cost us...as one poster said(dont know if it was on this site) we were 1 play short of WINNING SUPER BOWLS TWICE.....and if we had that one extra player, who made that one extra play, maybe we would have won them instead of making up reasons why we didnt.

1. The only two Mich. guys I can think of on D during the BB era are Ty Law and Pierre Woods. To the extent that Woods is a bust (which he is clearly not - an UDFA that is a core special teamer and top backup), I think Ty Law pretty much ruins your hypothesis.

2. You're right about KW going in the 3rd round, but he was a 1st round talent that had character and injury issues. But, I don't see your point. Again, you're assuming that those guys you mentioned are "steals" and that they could easily be core special teamers. I'm sure Cincinatti thought they had a "steal" w/ KW. I don't think you understand how much BB values special teamers like KW and Eckel.

3. I don't understand the point you're trying to make here...if it's that BB goes into the draft with a set idea of how many roster spots he has, I will agree with you. However, that doesn't mean that the competition in camp can't change his mind. I'm also not sure what your point is about veteran backups. You're assuming that they could have just grabbed a quality veteran backup. GOOD veteran backups are extremely rare and expensive. It just makes more sense to draft a talented QB, pay him peanuts, and develop him within your own system. The difference b/w this guy and the backups they currently have is that he has all the physical skills AND he was productive in college.

4. It's too early to determine whether next year's draft will be deeper or not. But I will tell you this - a second round pick is a powerful bargaining chip in any draft and will help them to target players they want in the first or early second next year.

[jeffbiologist]

Originally Posted by letekro

1. The only two Mich. guys I can think of on D during the BB era are Ty Law and Pierre Woods. To the extent that Woods is a bust (which he is clearly not - an UDFA that is a core special teamer and top backup), I think Ty Law pretty much ruins your hypothesis.

2. You're right about KW going in the 3rd round, but he was a 1st round talent that had character and injury issues. But, I don't see your point. Again, you're assuming that those guys you mentioned are "steals" and that they could easily be core special teamers. I'm sure Cincinatti thought they had a "steal" w/ KW. I don't think you understand how much BB values special teamers like KW and Eckel.

3. I don't understand the point you're trying to make here...if it's that BB goes into the draft with a set idea of how many roster spots he has, I will agree with you. However, that doesn't mean that the competition in camp can't change his mind. I'm also not sure what your point is about veteran backups. You're assuming that they could have just grabbed a quality veteran backup. GOOD veteran backups are extremely rare and expensive. It just makes more sense to draft a talented QB, pay him peanuts, and develop him within your own system. The difference b/w this guy and the backups they currently have is that he has all the physical skills AND he was productive in college.

4. It's too early to determine whether next year's draft will be deeper or not. But I will tell you this - a second round pick is a powerful bargaining chip in any draft and will help them to target players they want in the first or early second next year.

1-I will give you Ty Law, but that was like 15 years ago. There have been others, and not just with the pats, but alot of Michigan draftees are considered busts.
2-KW, I loved him in college too. He was a "steal" for a 3rd rounder. What I was saying is that we had a chance to improve our roster today and we didnt. You cant tell me that Charles wouldnt have been better than Eckel, or that he couldnt play ST as well. I know we value ST, but have you seen how they have been slipping post Vinatieri/T.Brown?
3-Developing rookie QBs, some guys can do it, some guys cant. How many has BB? We arent exactly Green Bay here,lol. The last few guys before and after TB....I say why not get some insurance. I agree, there is competition in camp, but I think I meant it as we were leaving money on the table, not making full use of all our chips in the draft.
4-I know, it is too early, but I guess I am tired of coming up one play short knowing we could have had one extra guy ....and if he was at the right position maybe he could have made that one extra play....frustration I guess,lol.

[reflexblue]

And now a word from NEM,Take it away NEM.
The Mayo pick was acceptable, though I think Rivers would have been a better pick.

The pick of Wheatley, a 5-9 cornerback that weighs 177 was, probably, the worst pick by any team in the draft.

CB is a priority and they drafted another HObbs. Terrell Thomas was available and TWICE the cb that Wheatley is. Wheatly at 177 lbs wont last past mini camp.

Disclaimer:This post does not necessaraly reflect the views of reflexblue.