apple strudel

How do you draw this conclusion based on the numbers you posted? I don't see a squat, and vertical jump is no real indicator of lower body power.

I'd have drafted Ngata at 7, gladly, were he in this years draft. And yes, I know we could use a pass rushing OLB. I want one too, in the form of Groves. But I wouldn't mind a defensive lineman in this draft, either, based on that position's compostion after 2009.

Patriot Missile

After all is said and done. The only thing I ask is "How the Hell did Vince Wilfork last until the 17th pick?" I'm still giddy over it .

PonyExpress

The VJ is a good indication of explosive lower body power. It indicates your max squat. The potential spring energy in one's lower half would be equal to the potential gravitational energy of the human body at the peak of the vertical jump.

captain stone

IMHO, drafting Ellis at #7 would be a complete waste. Not only does he have Bust Potential, but he also doesn't come close to fitting the profile of a 3-4 DE or NT. And he wouldn't provide maximum value for his draft slot, either. The #7 overall pick should be able to contribute from Opening Day 2008, not Opening Day 2010 or whenever $eymour's overpaid contract expires.

__________________
Question Authority.

mike100915

PonyExpress great job!

Your 100% right when it comes to the numbers, but just watch the tape of Senior Bowl. Ellis was unblockable. Watch this past USC games and he was a force in every game. He was the reason that their LB's had the ability to make so many plays. I'd have no problem picking him at #7. He's got a non-stop motor and he makes alot of plays. The Patriots could do so many different looks if they added an Ellis to that D-Line.

Would you take Ellis over Gholston? Todd McShay on ESPN radio today said that the Patriots do not like Gholston.

ctpatsfan77

Excellent point; I never thought of it that way before.

FWIW, though, you can't simply directly compare numbers; you'd have to correct for the mass (I presume it would be related to 1/mass--i.e., a 320# player would only go half as far as a 160# player generating the same energy).

__________________
"Momentum was quickly snatched away by New England, who once again proved that any Patriot, at any moment, can make a play." —Inside the NFL, Packers v. Patriots

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

captain stone

Another smokescreen from Foxborough, perhaps.

__________________
Question Authority.

ctpatsfan77

Except that Vrabel is not really built to play inside; towards the end of 2006 he was playing through excruciating pain. I am absolutely serious when I say that I believe moving Vrabel inside full-time will cut at least a year off his career (FWIW, I think he probably has ~4 years left if he takes care of himself).

AMEN.

__________________
"Momentum was quickly snatched away by New England, who once again proved that any Patriot, at any moment, can make a play." —Inside the NFL, Packers v. Patriots

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PonyExpress

One sleeper who really interests me from the later rds is Wisconsin's Nick Hayden. He seems like a good 3-4 DE developmental prospect who is being overlooked, and could be grabbed in rd 6. In fact, contrary to what I have read, this seems like a very athletic DT class overall, with many prospects worthy of consideration by the Pats. Among them Laws, Moore, Bryant, Sims, Pressley and Hayden. I would rather draft one of them, as a developmental pick, than bet the future of my team on Dorsey or Ellis at #7.

Pisa

Enjoyed the work done on Ellis and thought this might work for the number one guy.

Here's a look at some 40 times from starting DTs drafted over the past 4 years, currently playing in the NFL:

Wilfork, 5.21 at 323 lbs.
Ngata 5.12 at 338 lbs
Olshansky 4.98 at 318 lbs
Castillo 4.79 at 305 lbs
Okoye 5.07 at 303 lbs
Dockett 4.96 at 297 lbs
THarris 4.78 at 292 lbs
Cofield 4.95 at 304 lbs
Spears 5.03 at 307 lbs
Dorsey 5.12 at 297 lbs

Short Shuttle: Dorsey ran a 4.80. This is tortoise slow. As a comparison...
Castillo: 4.24
THarris: 4.3
Olshansky: 4.42
Wilfork: 4.5
TKelly: 4.47
Ngata: 4.69 (at 338 lbs)
Dockett: 4.62
Okoye: 4.44
Cofield: 4.35
Spears: 4.44


3-cone: Dorsey ran a 7.52 This is a decent time. As a comparison...

THarris: 7.33 (299 lbs)
Wilfork 7.62 (323 lbs)
Olshanksy 7.64 (318 lbs)
Cofield 7.43 (304 lbs)
Spears 7.21 (307 lbs)
Ngata 7.97 (338 lbs)
TKelly 7.8 (299 lbs)
Okoye: 7.46 (302 lbs)


Vertical Jump: Dorsey jumped 25' 1/2" at his pro day, when he weighed 297 lbs. For comparison....

Castillo: 34.5
Olshansky 33.5
THarris: 31
BCofield: 34
Ngata: 31.5
Spears: 31
Okoye: 30
Wilfork: 26.5
TKelly: 25
Dockett: 31

Dorsey had a long jump of 8'4". You didn't use that as a variable but it is very low.

So Dorsey here is bottom of the road for an NFL starting DT prospect.

Bench press: Dorsey alleged had 27 but not on his pro day.

Conclusion: Dorsey has slightly below average speed and scores low on strength and explosiveness. Predictions of greatness should be perhaps reduced.