jays52

There seems to be many people here infatuated with taking one of the three top OLB converts available. Be it Gholston, Groves or Long. I understand the logic in additon to how impressive those three players are. However, when you consider the value of one of the converts at seven versus Rivers, I think taking Rivers is the more logical selection.

Consider the depth with 3-4 convert ends this year. First, there's a better than good shot both Gholston and Long will be gone at seven. While I certainly think that Groves will be a special player, I believe that Rivers is more valuable to the Patriots. I say this because I see Rivers as a blend of all the things the Pat's ILB's are missing.

First, he's explosive. While AD is fast, I don't he is overly explosive or quick. Other than AD, there isn't much team speed in the front 7. The defense reaches the ball, but they don't swarm. They flush the passer and collapse the pocket, but they don't finish. I think AD's skills are best suited for blanketing tight ends or holding the edge. I don't think he has enough first-step quickness to play inside.

Second, he plays hard. Obviously you like to see that in any player, but the way he plays is conducive to the scheme. When I saw him play, the thing that really stood out to me was how he engaged guards or other blockers while scraping or filling. He dropped his hips, exploded from the trunk and delivered a solid arm pop to full lock out. He stood guys up and got off the blocker very quickly. Several times, I saw him drive guards into the gap and make the play without the boxscore credit for it.

Third, I think he's pretty bright. Please don't refute this with a wonderlic score. He plays intensely but controlled within his scheme. He makes smart post-snap decisions and seems to have excellent awareness of where his teamates are. He makes the kind of plays that are indicative of pretty decent intelligence.

Fourth, he wears 55. You can't be a scrub and wear that number at his school.

Anyone have any thoughts towards this end? Agree? Disagree?

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KontradictioN

I'd rather have Groves... heart condition or not.

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CREDIT - Sicilian

The Hurricane

He has poor tackling skills and will never be a stud. He is a much better athlete than he is a player and he definitely benefited from the talented players around him. Also, players get number 55 when they enter the program not when they leave it, so 55 is more of a testament to how good they THOUGHT he was going to be and not how good he IS.

Don't get me wrong, I think he lived up to the number in college, I just think he won't be very special in the pros.

patchick

Well, can I refute it with reports that he struggles in the classroom, or nfldraftscout's comment that he "might have problems digesting a complicated playbook"? I know that book smarts doesn't equal football smarts, but ILB is one of the positions where book smarts matter most -- and where the intellectual demands of the position will be far, far beyond what he had to handle in college.

Rivers seems to me like a terrific player, and a lousy fit for the Pats ILB position. Here's what I look for:

- Strength stacking and shedding blockers
- Sifting through trash
- Reading the play/finding the ball quickly
- Intelligence

Here are some excerpts on Rivers:
"will struggle to shed vs. the bigger blockers"
"will lose sight of the ball in a crowd and must do a better job sifting through trash"
"Needs to have a clear path to the quarterback, as he has been exposed for strength issues when trying to shoot the gaps"
"Does not read keys all the time, but will move and close once he sees the play develop"
"will get fooled by play-action and pump fakes"

I agree completely that Rivers is explosive and works and plays hard, but his strengths seem more like an OLB, and he's smaller than I'd like for that position.

My2Cents

I repeat, ...I would NOT take one [DE converts]. ...because the Patriots would be asking him to do something that at which he's inexperienced and unproven. Namely, playing OLB. Generally, the Patriots bring in players BECAUSE they are experienced and proven at what they're asked to do.

I might add that if it comes down to taking Gholston or Keith Rivers, the pick is most likely Rivers. However, I have a hard time ruling out DB Mike Jenkins.

My2Cents

Let me say, also, that I see Rivers as an upgrade over Colvin. Remember the reason that they brought him [Colvin] in was due to his rare athleticism and his even rarer ability to drop into coverage well, both of which are Rivers' strongest selling point(s). Seems a no-brainer to me.

patchick

You know, reading over the original post I realized I'm not clear -- are you proposing Rivers as an ILB or OLB?

Brady'sButtBoy

I can honestly say I've never been "emphatuated" with anyone, least of all a guy named Gholston! Now, I don't think she plays football, but I probably was infatuated with Julia Ormond right after Legends Of The Fall came out; or with Rachel McAdams after Wedding Crashers: or with the Barbie Twins after...uh, forget that one.

BTW, myspace.com is not a dictionary site, dude!

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jays52

You got it right the first time, I see the fit to be better inside. To be completely honest, I really disagree with some of the scouting reports out there about how he can't disengage blockers. I think he's pretty good at that.

More so, he's listed at ballpark 240(?) at 6'2. Which is pretty small for a pretty big frame. The underlying theme was that we're looking at a kid who's going to take a year or two to develop into a solid starter regardless of who we take. I think that in a pro training regimen, with the schematic demands in mind, he can get up to 255-260 without losing his speed and quickness. There is no questioning his playing intensity, nor his technique. I think most of his problems on the scouting sheet come from the relative lack of bulk for his size.

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jays52

Woah. What a dick. That was pretty hardcore for a poorly spelled word. Correction noted, appreciated and unintentionally hilarious.

Anything of value you would care to contribute, holmes?

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