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Old 12-17-2009, 03:26 PM   #41
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Default Re: Bigger need next year WR or RB?

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Originally Posted by mayoclinic View Post
I'd love to see a speed guy brought in at RB, who can also be used in the passing game. Either someone like Reggie Bush if he gets cut by NO, or a rookie like Dexter McCluster or Noel Devine.
I'd be interested in how you compare these guys as Faulk replacements. I'm completely torn. They are both tiny (5'8", 170 lb) but McCluster seems to play bigger. Devine is a blur in the open field. McCluster looks more comfortable in the passing game. Devine seems to have better change-of-direction skills in the running/return game.

Obviously I could be talked into/out of either of these guys. Anyone else that I should throw into the mix to confuse me even more?
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:27 PM   #42
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Default Re: Bigger need next year WR or RB?

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All true, as usual, Mr. Box. Unfortunately, neither of the remaining 3 - Aiken, Edelman & Stanback - will develop into a legit #3 this season, if ever. Emperor William still clings to the hopeless delusion that Sam Aiken can outrun coverage; Edelman is nothing more than a backup slot guy. And with 2 former college QBs on the 53, why hasn't the Genius developed any Wildcat situations for them? I would have loved to see one of them receive a direct snap on 3rd/2 vs. Indy.
I don't believe Aiken was intended to be his #3 WR, but he's done better then I expected when thrust into that role. Yes, Galloway was a disaster, I understand why they tried, but he's not the direction I'd have chosen to go in given a vote. I think Edelman, if Tommy and he get their timing back in-sync, can do most of what a good #3 can do - at least he can move the chains if all the coverage is rolled elsewhere. Stanback is no better than a 4th WR for the near future, what he can be in time is for another season to decide.
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:55 AM   #43
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Default Re: Bigger need next year WR or RB?

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The wildcard is Tate. I think Tate either settles into the #3 role at some point next year or he moves on. Tate will need practice and game reps to grow into this role. So unless the Pats are ready to give up on Tate or Edelman (and I don't think they are), bringing in a FA to push them down the depth chart seems misguided. Bringing in a draft pick to compete with Stanback for the #6 seems fine, but I wouldn't invest more than a mid-round pick to do it.

I do believe the Pats could use a pure speed guy, but I would rather see that at the RB position as a return guy and an eventual replacement for Faulk.
I think we're on the same page here. However, my issue is banking on Tate - I have very high hopes for him, but if his injury is another ligament tear, that is a huge disappointment. That would set him back to at least training camp, and put him largely in the same situation he was this year. Really makes you feel for the guy. It's never been confirmed, so we won't know until the summer, probably, when we see if he's at camps or not.

I think the point about getting a speed guy at RB is a good one.

We have avoided the super-quick undersized offensive skill player in the last two drafts and we have missed out. Chris Johnson, Donnie Avery, Eddie Royal, etc. I'd like to see us pick up a guy like that at either or both positions. (On a side note, can anyone see us swinging a trade for Royal? He's really underused in the Broncos offense which has great depth at the wide receiver position. And, like many Patriot players on this roster, he had great success playing against us.)

I forgot about Stanback - I like what I see from him so far, but you never know how much of it is just being put in a position he's been forced to be in. The lack of depth has thrust him into the role he's played. This is the same offense with the same quarterback that turned Reche Caldwell into a decent #1. Two years later, Caldwell was out of the league. So I'm always wary of saying "hey, Sam Aiken is producing more than he used to" or "Brady found Stanback a few times, he must be coming along" and making a judgment like that. It's not a conclusion I feel comfortable making yet.

One final thing on RB vs WR. Given our RB by committee approach, given we have a 3rd down back in Faulk, given we have Maroney & Taylor under contact next season - think about how many snaps another RB would get, even a high draft pick. 10-15? 20 at most? A legitimate #3 WR would get anywhere between 30-55 snaps in this system. When we had Gaffney & Stallworth, we were playing 3-wide almost exclusively. With the depth depleted, and injuries to Aiken & Edelman, we use it less, but still. A #3WR is a starting position on this team, and it needs to be improved greatly for next season.

Last edited by BradyManny; 12-18-2009 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:09 PM   #44
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Default Re: Bigger need next year WR or RB?

There are far too many things this team needs to fix it in one year. The last couple of years of bad FA signings, bad trades, and poor drafts have really hurt this team.
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Old 12-19-2009, 02:20 PM   #45
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Default Re: Bigger need next year WR or RB?

Poor washed up bastard's only 6th in the NFL in receiving yardage and 4th in TDs. On pace for over 1300 yards this season.

I see what you mean. Don't sugar coat it so much next time


mayoclinic,

While what you write is true the relevant thing is not what Moss has done but rather that he will do, lately Moss hasn't been...well...Moss. Just looking at his movement on the field alone he seems leagues away from the young Moss tearing up the field for the Vikings. I suspect he has a significant injury which is factoring into things and he's toughing things out to take pressure off of the rest of the offense, but it's not a bad idea to ask how effective he will be for what length of time.

That being said, I think we're ok on receivers for the time being, we have talent but we need to develop that talent and channel it in a productive manner. Brady has said that the Patriots offense is very difficult for receivers to pick up, maybe they need to simplify it a bit, I certainly think having a more creative OC would help, with former QBs like Edelman and Stanback on the Patriots it seems a shame that they don't ever have them throw, even just to spice things up and keep the other team guessing.
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:42 PM   #46
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Default Re: Bigger need next year WR or RB?

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I'd be interested in how you compare these guys as Faulk replacements. I'm completely torn. They are both tiny (5'8", 170 lb) but McCluster seems to play bigger. Devine is a blur in the open field. McCluster looks more comfortable in the passing game. Devine seems to have better change-of-direction skills in the running/return game.

Obviously I could be talked into/out of either of these guys. Anyone else that I should throw into the mix to confuse me even more?
I think you're basically right. Devine has more moves and agility than just about anyone and is liquid lightning, but McCluster seems a bit tougher and definitely more versatile. "Change of direction" for Devine is almost redundant - I've seldom seen anyone able to go in 2 different directions that way since Barry Sanders. But whether he can stand up to a pounding is another question.

I'd be happy with either, though.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:19 PM   #47
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Default Re: Bigger need next year WR or RB?

I think the skill positions need a little tweaking but in a different direction. TE is possibly our #1 need. Getting another RB that cant block isnt going to help. People are crying because Taylor is hurt, they will try and sell him to us again very soon as this team doesnt cut many vets under contract. I do see us making a run at J.Norwood to replace Faulk, although that wont initially be a popular move. Tate needs more time at #3, Edleman is a nice find at #4, and resigning Aiken for #5/ST is very good value/insurance. Bringing in another JAG to camp is obvious, lets hope we dont have another Lewis-type fiasco. I see no major FA moves and mostly big bodies drafted to get back to smacking people in the mouth.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:31 PM   #48
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Default Re: Bigger need next year WR or RB?

I rewatched the Panther game making special note of watching Stanbach and Edelman. Julian was split wide everytime on the field ... Brady never looked his way.

But that doesn't surprise me ...

I don't think we really have any plays that use 2 slot receivers. We have plays for a slot receiver and a TE and a slot receiver and a RB ... but 2 smaller players in the slot is intriguing but we need some plays for it.

Technically I'm sure some plays could be drawn up for this year ... but I expect Belichick to really utilize this more next year when they have more time to tweak the playbook.

Another speedster wide and 2 mini human slot receivers could be a very lethal combination for 2010. Aiken will hang around as the 4th or 5th receiver depending on injuries but we need a 4.3 / 4.4 guy and we'll draft Jacoby Ford or Jordan Shipley.
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