Can somebody explain Robert Ayers to me? - New England Patriots Forums

***patchick*** · 04-10-2009, 07:56 AM

No prospect in this draft confuses me more. The closer I look, the less I understand. Ayers was considered an underachieving, undermotivated malcontent without a position until his senior year, which was much improved but not world-beating playing at a position he's unlikely to play in the NFL. His measurables are nothing special (fast 40, but 18 reps & 29" VJ matter more for a DL). And as far as I can tell, he still has no position.

Yet he's routinely called a first-rounder. Mayock has him ranked as the #1 DE in the draft!

I know he had a great Senior Bowl, but there's got to be more to it. Can somebody explain this guy to me? And if the Patriots were to draft him, where would he play?

***mgteich*** · 04-10-2009, 08:01 AM

The consensus here is that Ayers would play ILB for us.

dryheat44 · 04-10-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patchick

No prospect in this draft confuses me more. The closer I look, the less I understand. Ayers was considered an underachieving, undermotivated malcontent without a position until his senior year, which was much improved but not world-beating playing at a position he's unlikely to play in the NFL. His measurables are nothing special (fast 40, but 18 reps & 29" VJ matter more for a DL). And as far as I can tell, he still has no position.

Yet he's routinely called a first-rounder. Mayock has him ranked as the #1 DE in the draft!

I know he had a great Senior Bowl, but there's got to be more to it. Can somebody explain this guy to me? And if the Patriots were to draft him, where would he play?

I think my bafflement at drafting this underachieving, relatively unathletic, homeless in BB's defense prospect is well-documented. I had him as a possible free agent.

***PATSNUTme*** · 04-10-2009, 09:36 AM

I guess you would call him a high risk- high reward prospect who could be a total bust. If the Patriots do draft him they will have done their homework to make sure, as well as they can, that he won't be a bust.

My guess is that they will take a pass on him and a 4-3 team will take him.

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 04-10-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgteich

The consensus here is that Ayers would play ILB for us.

I dissent.

***patchick*** · 04-10-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box_O_Rocks

I dissent.

Don't leave us hanging, now! OLB? TE? KR?

***mayoclinic*** · 04-10-2009, 11:51 AM

As one of the first one this board to bring Ayer's name up, let me have a try.

First, I'm not convinced Ayers is a top 15 pick like many mocks have him. I certainly wouldn't go out on a limb like Mayock and trumpet him as the best defensive player out of this draft in 2-3 years. But I do think he has a lot of good point and is probably a legitimate late 1st/early 2nd round pick.

What stands out about Ayers to me is two things: his versatility, and the completeness of his game. More than any DE in this draft he can play the run and defend the pass as well as pressure the QB. Everette Brown and Brian Orapko seem more one dimensional to me. Ayers is to my mind without doubt the best run-defending 4-3 DE in this draft (I am not including Tyson Jackson). He has a nice motor and array of moves and seems particularly strong inside. He has good hand technique and is adept at taking on offensive lineman. And (perhaps because of his background as an ILB in high school) he has good ball awarenessand skills. He has excellent size. And he has terrific positional variability, having played LB, DE and DT at various times for Tennessee.

Where Ayers seems questionable is in terms of his lack of elite speed as an edge rusher. However, if a 4-3 team is looking for more of a complete DE who can defend the run and drop into coverage as well as purely rush, then Ayers seems worthy of consideration.

Because he may lack the pure speed to be an effective outside rusher, because he has a nice array of inside moves, and because of his ability to take on OLs, I could see Ayer's best fit being inside rather than outside. He lacks the size to be a DT. I'm not sure he has the necessary play recognition and pass coverage skills to be a 3-down ILB, but I hope the Pats are at least looking at him there to see if he might be a fit.

What Ayers lacks is elite

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 04-10-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patchick

Don't leave us hanging, now! OLB? TE? KR?

My dissent is in relation to a consensus viewing Ayers as an ILB, a minority projects him in that regard, the majority seems to be seated at your table scratching their heads and looking confused. Having only seen him play in the Senior Bowl, I have a positive impression, but no firm conviction. Highlights in the overview below underline my lack of conviction:

Quote:

Regarded as one of the nation's premier defensive players coming out of Marlboro County High School, Ayers struggled to earn his place with the Volunteers until his senior season.

Renewed dedication helped him emerge as one of the few bright spots during a troublesome season for the Vols. He would go on to earn All-Southeastern Conference honors and shared the Andy Spiva Award, given to the team's most improved defensive player.

For all of Ayers' physical ability, the coaches admit that he just recently emerged following a few inconsistent seasons.

"When Robert got here, he thought he was God's gift to football," former head coach Phillip Fulmer said. "He wouldn't listen to the upperclassmen -- not in a bad way, but he just didn't take to coaching very well. (As a senior) he's starving for coaching, and he's giving great effort. He's turned into a big-time SEC defensive end."

Ayers wanted to be a linebacker but agreed to slide to defensive tackle, where the Vols had serious depth concerns. It would have been easy for Ayers to fight even a situational role in his last chance to show NFL scouts his ability at end. However, he was more concerned with his last chance to win an SEC championship.

"Obviously, I feel like I'm better off the edge," he said. "But I'll do whatever the coaches ask me to do," Ayers stated prior to his banner senior season.

At Marlboro County High School, Ayers earned All-State honors as a linebacker and was selected to play in the 2003 Shrine Bowl of the Carolinas. He added All-South honors from Fox Sports Net and was a Top 100 Dream Team choice by Prep Star. Super Prep rated him the third-best linebacker prospect in the nation and the second-best overall prospect in the state of South Carolina. ESPN's Tom Lemming rated him the seventh-best linebacker in the country and he received a four-star ranking from Rivals.com.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution's Super Southern 100 choice recorded 112 tackles and five interceptions, as he also returned kickoffs as a senior. His best performance was a 28-tackle effort vs. Clover High. He also recorded 94 tackles, including eight sacks, to go with three interceptions as junior. In addition to football he lettered in track, competing in the 100-meter dash and 4x100-meter relay.

Ayers redshirted as a 230-pound outside linebacker for Tennessee in 2004. Having bulked up to 250 pounds prior to the 2005 campaign, he shifted to left defensive end. He backed up All-SEC choice Parys Haralson, as he delivered five tackles (three solo) and a six-yard sack in nine games.

The redshirt sophomore shifted to right end the following season, playing behind Antonio Reynolds, but was hampered early in the 2006 season by a left hand fracture suffered in August camp. He would produce 25 tackles (17 solo) with one sack in 13 games, earning two late-season starting assignments.

In 2007, Ayers was a reserve behind Antonio Reynolds. Even though he was used off the bench, he led the team with four sacks and 12 stops behind the line of scrimmage. He also collected 34 tackles (25 solo) with two pass breakups and four quarterback pressures.

As a senior, Ayers caught fire at midseason to deliver 49 tackles (34 solo) with three sacks, leading the team and league with 15.5 stops behind the line of scrimmage. He also had six pressures and his first career interception.

"Caught fire at midseason"... Coincidentally, his catching fire occured about the time a particularly self-centered individual might suddenly twig to the fact that his hopes of an NFL career (read $$$) were languishing in the shadows...if not at the back door ready to be set out for the next day's trash collection.

If the player who may not be named lest his mention elicit a G-20 conference is no better than a third round value to the eminent Michael of Mayock and Sir Charlie D'Casserly, I'm perplexed as to why Mr. Ayers enjoys such strong support. Perhaps I should have paid more attention to Machiavelli? Further, in NFL Draft Scout's performance analysis he grades out at 6.1 and 7.7 for 'Strength at the Point' and 'Run Defense' respectively - that other nameless individual has similar scores of 6.4 and 7.8...

In closing, I again go to NFL Draft Scout for a look into the crystal ball of potential:

Quote:

Football Sense: Ayers does a decent job mentally to see and react to the ball. He struggles at times to play with proper leverage and doesn't always play with a steady motor. He is an adequate learner who needs time to digest. He showed better field awareness in 2008 than in the past, but still lacks the ability to rely on his instincts rather than think through the play before reacting. In a complicated system, he could struggle. GRADE: 5.8

Work Habits: While Ayers has good explosion and burst, from the looks of his weight room figures, you can see why some teams think he will get pushed around a bit. He has a history of shoulder woes dating to his high school days, but they did not come back to haunt him at Tennessee. Despite showing a strong hand punch in the trenches, his bench press totals indicate the shoulder issues might persist. He really bought into the program prior to his senior year, but after three less-than spectacular seasons, it leads teams to wonder if he was a one-year riser or one that is reaching his potential. GRADE: 5.7

Football Sense: **redacted** has no problem taking plays from the chalkboard to the playing field. He is still a work in progress as a defensive player, but while he does play on instincts at this stage of his career, he has no problem grasping the mental aspect of the game. He is a low-rep type, shows above-average alertness to his surroundings and observers see on film his natural ability to locate the ball. Despite just a short stint on defense, he understands his role and will not hesitate to seek information from coaches, knowing that input can only help. On defense, you can see that he picks up traps and pulls quickly and is very capable of handling the mental aspect of the game. As a tight end, he makes good adjustments on the run, spotting coverage while running routes. He also knows that he has the speed to get open after the catch. GRADE: 7.0

Work Habits: **redacted** has great character, giving 110% effort on the football gridiron and the basketball hardwood. He is a good leader-by-example type, as he has never complained about his use as a role player, despite having better athletic pedigree than any other player in the **redacted** program. He will not hesitate to be a vocal leader. On the field, he is a high-strung type and has a good "search and destroy" work ethic. He plays and practices the same way -- all out. There is still that unknown about him, as many wonder what makes him tick. He seems to not relish being in the limelight and would rather just go about his task, but it is obvious that his athletic ability makes him stand out from the crowd. He easily has the work ethic teams look for, evident by the extra hours he put in the training room in the offseason to redesign his body to play defense. He is very coachable and stays in very good shape. He is looked up to by the younger players and accepted more of a leadership role in 2008. He listens well and is a goal-oriented type that will do whatever the coaches ask. As a tight end, he is a hard worker on the field, doing a very good job of finishing his assignment on the field. GRADE: 7.5

It is what it is.

BlackFrancis · 04-10-2009, 02:42 PM

I've got to say, I don't get Mayock's obsession with Ayers either. If this guy made an effective pass rushing move during his career at Tennessee, I guess I missed it. Folks were gaga over his Senior Bowl but I saw the same things he showed at Tennessee - just trying to turn the corner.

I cannot see Ayers being a successful linebacker in the NFL. In my eyes, his only position as a pro will be as a 4-3 DE and I fully expect him to disappoint, much like he did in college.

***patchick*** · 04-10-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

I do think he has a lot of good point and is probably a legitimate late 1st/early 2nd round pick.
...
if a 4-3 team is looking for more of a complete DE who can defend the run and drop into coverage as well as purely rush, then Ayers seems worthy of consideration.
...
I'm not sure he has the necessary play recognition and pass coverage skills to be a 3-down ILB, but I hope the Pats are at least looking at him there to see if he might be a fit.

Mayo, is your 1st/2nd valuation as a 4-3 DE or as a 3-4 ILB project?