Lateral Agility - Interesting Read from Nolan Nawrocki - New England Patriots Forums

***mayoclinic*** · 04-07-2009, 03:18 PM

This just out from Nolan Nawrocki at PFW:

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

Since we've been talking about alternative metrics such as the short shuttle, 10 yard split and 3-cone, I thought this would be of interest. It essentially looks at the difference bewteen the 40 time and the short shuttle as a metric of lateral agility.

Some of our favorite players don't do particularly well here, while some others - thought of as less "athletic" - do quite well. For example, it suggests that Darius Butler, Jarron Gilbert, Everette Brown and Tyson Jackson are all well below average in agility for their positions. It also suggests that Ron Brace is much more agile than expected.

I'm not sure what to make of this and whether I believe it. I guess it means that Ron Brace can move side to side better than he can move forwards, but I don't know what that means. Nic Harris has a terrific backpedal but a horrible 40 time. Does his fast backpedal make him any less slow? Not sure.

***maverick4*** · 04-07-2009, 03:19 PM

Doesn't Cushing have the best lateral ability of any LB prospect?

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 04-07-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

This just out from Nolan Nawrocki at PFW:

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

Since we've been talking about alternative metrics such as the short shuttle, 10 yard split and 3-cone, I thought this would be of interest. It essentially looks at the difference bewteen the 40 time and the short shuttle as a metric of lateral agility.

Some of our favorite players don't do particularly well here, while some others - thought of as less "athletic" - do quite well. For example, it suggests that Darius Butler, Jarron Gilbert, Everette Brown and Tyson Jackson are all well below average in agility for their positions. It also suggests that Ron Brace is much more agile than expected.

I'm not sure what to make of this and whether I believe it. I guess it means that Ron Brace can move side to side better than he can move forwards, but I don't know what that means. Nic Harris has a terrific backpedal but a horrible 40 time. Does his fast backpedal make him any less slow? Not sure.

You don't consider the SS scores when assessing position fit? How many times have we seen a Safety start moving towards one hash and have to suddenly change direction? If a CB gets turned in or outside by the WR, what potential does he have to change direction and get back into the play? A 4-3 MLB is more likely to be put in a position to change direction for a RB using his cutback lane, than a 3-4 ILB who has a partner guarding against that cutback. A 4-3 one-gap penetrating DT is more likely to need to change direction than a 3-4 two-gap DE who is stacking up the OL and reading the play.

I consider the 3-cone more important for a WR who will play on the outside, but a Wes Welker playing inside who has two ways to go will be more effective if he can start one way, then stop and reverse direction once the defender is committed. A good 3-cone helps Wes, but his short shuttle had to be killer for him to be so effective.

TriplecHamp · 04-07-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box_O_Rocks

You don't consider the SS scores when assessing position fit? How many times have we seen a Safety start moving towards one hash and have to suddenly change direction? If a CB gets turned in or outside by the WR, what potential does he have to change direction and get back into the play? A 4-3 MLB is more likely to be put in a position to change direction for a RB using his cutback lane, than a 3-4 ILB who has a partner guarding against that cutback. A 4-3 one-gap penetrating DT is more likely to need to change direction than a 3-4 two-gap DE who is stacking up the OL and reading the play.

I consider the 3-cone more important for a WR who will play on the outside, but a Wes Welker playing inside who has two ways to go will be more effective if he can start one way, then stop and reverse direction once the defender is committed. A good 3-cone helps Wes, but his short shuttle had to be killer for him to be so effective.

Agree, gotta love those China Outs.

AzPatsFan · 04-07-2009, 04:39 PM

Note that James Lauranitis measure at .54, led all the ILBs, DEs,and OLBs of any consequence. His production of 9 INTs and 13 PDs is spectacular, and beats many first round CBs! And he has double the ILB sacks of Rey Maualuga.

He was the Butkus Award winner as the collegiate best LB; and and also an Academic All American. He screams 15 year player, and team captain calling the defenses and adjustments and on the field for all three downs.

He is still my aim for 23. And I don't give a damn that he is not superb in standing up Guards, merely pretty good.

(and Barwin at #34)

TealSox · 04-07-2009, 06:55 PM

Lauranitis is starting to grow on me. Plays like a leader and is all over the field. Of all the linebackers in the draft, I think he left college with less to prove. I mean, there wasn't much he didn't accomplish at the college level and few, if any, red flags.

TriplecHamp · 04-07-2009, 07:08 PM

Not an impact player dont want him at #23 #34 #47 #58....I just dont think he can stop the run. IDK im just not a fan at all. Yeah he had great numbers but...I dont think he is a SILB.

***maverick4*** · 04-07-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzPatsFan

Note that James Lauranitis measure at .54, led all the ILBs, DEs,and OLBs of any consequence. His production of 9 INTs and 13 PDs is spectacular, and beats many first round CBs! And he has double the ILB sacks of Rey Maualuga.

He was the Butkus Award winner as the collegiate best LB; and and also an Academic All American. He screams 15 year player, and team captain calling the defenses and adjustments and on the field for all three downs.

He is still my aim for 23. And I don't give a damn that he is not superb in standing up Guards, merely pretty good.

(and Barwin at #34)

I feel a lot better about Laurinaitis, Cushing, or Maualuga than Barwin, but I freely admit I'm completely biased towards production and experience.

***mayoclinic*** · 04-07-2009, 07:27 PM

What I don't understand about this metric is that it seems to prefer people who run a slow 40. Since it measures short shuttle minus 40 time, you get a higher number of you run a good short shuttle but a poor 40 time. If you run both well, you are penalized. I don't particularly see why I should favor someone who runs a good short shuttle and a poor 40 over someone who does both well. That's why people like Nic Harris and Ron Brace have relatively inflated scores.

I can understand the concept that you may have great linear speed but poor lateral mobility. That seems worth trying to tease out. I can also understand that you might have less than ideal linear speed and excellent lateral ability. But at best this seems like a crude tool.

Lockdown06 · 04-07-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

What I don't understand about this metric is that it seems to prefer people who run a slow 40. Since it measures short shuttle minus 40 time, you get a higher number of you run a good short shuttle but a poor 40 time. If you run both well, you are penalized. I don't particularly see why I should favor someone who runs a good short shuttle and a poor 40 over someone who does both well. That's why people like Nic Harris and Ron Brace have relatively inflated scores.

I can understand the concept that you may have great linear speed but poor lateral mobility. That seems worth trying to tease out. I can also understand that you might have less than ideal linear speed and excellent lateral ability. But at best this seems like a crude tool.

I agree - if you're way better at one or the other, this statistic will highlight it, but if you're equally terrible OR equally outstanding, you're going to be penalized - for example, Pat White had a poor score - there is no way that guy is not laterally quick, he's just really quick and really fast, so it looks like a bad score cause there's not a significant difference between his times