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***mayoclinic*** · 01-18-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patchick

Forgive me for repeating myself, but you really have to stop comparing those two pairs as if it were a choice between them. It simply wasn't; Lofton was long, long gone before the Wheatley pick. You might as well say the Pats should have taken LaRon Landry over Meriweather.

Again, a fairer comparison is

DRC/Lofton instead of Mayo/Wheatley/O'Connell/Wilhite

I liked him a lot (not nearly as much as Mayo, but still a lot), but Lofton just wasn't going to happen last year. He was obviously going to go late 1st/early 2nd, so with picks at 7 and 63 there was no realistic way that we could get him if we had taken DRC in the 1st round. Detroit needed an ILB and wanted Mayo at 15, but had to reach Jordan Dizon in the 2nd round; they would have been in much better position to trade up than the Pats.

Of course, if someone hadn't taken away #31 from us then picking DRC at #10 and Lofton at #31 would have been terrific.

I loved DRC last year. I realistically thought that the Pats could have gone with Mayo, DRC, or an OT (Ryan Clady or Brandon Albert) in the 1st last year. All look like they are going to be stars, but I think in the long run Mayo will turn out to be the best, the best suited to the Pats system, and at the greatest position of need. But I'm obviously biased given my avatar.

Pats726 · 01-18-2009, 05:36 AM

Is there a final list of all who have declared??? How many finally did?? 40 50?? Just curious...as well as how this will impact the draft...might it make that second rounder from SD a better chance at a pick?

***PATSNUTme*** · 01-18-2009, 07:30 AM

Not sure if this is a complete list

QB Mark Sanchez - Southern Cal
QB Matthew Stafford - Georgia
QB Josh Freeman - Kansas St
QB Nate Davis - Ball St.
RB Knowshon Moreno - Georgia
RB Shonn Greene - Iowa
RB Donald Brown - UConn
RB Chris Wells - Ohio St
RB P.J. Hill - Wisconsin
RB Glen Coffee - Alabama
RB LeSean McCoy - Pittsburgh
RB Brandon Mason - Stony Brook
WR Percy Harvin - Florida
WR Michael Crabtree - Texas Tech
WR Jeremy Maclin - Missouri
WR Kenny Britt - Rutgers
WR Hakeem Nicks - North Carolina
WR Darrius Heyward-Bey - Maryland
WR Austin Collie - BYU
WR Kevin Ogletree - Virginia
WR Jeremy Childs - Boise St
WR Brandon LaFell - LSU
WR Brian Hartline - Ohio St
TE Jared Cook - South Carolina
TE James Casey - Rice
TE Andrew Davie - Arkansas
TE Richard Quinn - North Carolina
OT Andre Smith - Alabama
OT Eben Britton - Arizona
OG Greg Isdaner - West Virginia
Defensive Players
DE Maurice Evans - Penn St
DE Aaron Maybin - Penn St
DE Everette Brown - Florida St
DE Paul Kruger - Utah
DE Brandon Williams - Texas Tech
DT Sen'Derrick Marks - Auburn
DT Ricky Jean-Francois - LSU
DT Chris Baker - Hampton
LB Gerald McRath - Southern Miss
CB Vontae Davis - Illinois
CB DJ Moore - Vanderbilt
CB Captain Munnerlyn - South Carolina
CB Jerraud Powers - Auburn
CB James Williams - Southern Connecticut
CB Sean Smith - Utah
CB Asher Allen - Georgia
CB Jairus Byrd - Oregon
CB Donald Washington - Ohio St
S Emanuel Cook - South Carolina

patsfaninpa · 01-18-2009, 08:17 AM

I thought if was a defensive heavy draft for the seniors. But, most of the underclassmen
declaring are skill position players. Seems like a lot of wr's declared and are good prospects.
I think where Sanchez/Stafford go will set the tone for the draft. Plus, influence where
Matt Cassel ends up. Hope we can get a 1 for Matt. Or, early 2nd(det). Would give us a chance for a dynamic draft.

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 01-18-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats726

Is there a final list of all who have declared??? How many finally did?? 40 50?? Just curious...as well as how this will impact the draft...might it make that second rounder from SD a better chance at a pick?

I'll see if I can find the list NFL Draft Scout maintains and post that when I have time to play with lining up the columns so it's more readable...if I feel especially energetic, I'll even break it out into positions. My impression is this year was average for underclassmen declarations and the Day One pool of prospects. Day Two looked strong beforehand and I like it for OL, especially after the Shrine Game.

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 01-19-2009, 01:54 AM

01/18/09 - Brandon LaFell, rJr/2010, LSU, 6-3, 210 (DS#1 WR)
On Sunday, LSU junior wide receiver Brandon LaFell removed his name from the NFL Draft's early entry list and announced his plan to return to the team for his senior season. Details to come. Per NCAA rules, underclassmen have 72 hours after the early-entry deadline to revoke their declaration provided that they have not signed with an agent. In three years with the Tigers, LaFell established himself as one of the top pass catchers in school history. He has 118 career receptions for 1,725 yards and 18 touchdowns. As a junior in 2008, LaFell put together one of the best seasons for a receiver in school history with 63 receptions for 929 yards and a league-leading eight touchdowns. - LSU football

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 01-19-2009, 03:51 AM

Code:

Name                  Pos  School         Proj.  Measurables
Nate Davis            QB   Ball State       3 	6-1/218, 4.78
Josh Freeman          QB   Kansas State    2-3 	6-6/248, 4.86
Mark Sanchez          QB   Southern Cal     1 	6-3/225, 4.85
Matthew Stafford      QB   Georgia          1 	6-3/236, 4.78

Donald Brown          RB   Connecticut      2 	5-10/210, 4.49
Glen Coffee           RB   Alabama          5 	6-1/204, 4.53
Shonn Greene          RB   Iowa            1-2	5-11/235, 4.58
P.J. Hill             RB   Wisconsin       7-FA 	5-11/236, 4.59
LeSean McCoy          RB   Pittsburgh       1 	5-11/210, 4.49
Knowshon Moreno       RB   Georgia          1 	5-11/208, 4.48
Chris Wells           RB   Ohio  State      1 	6-1/237, 4.53

James Casey           TE   Rice             2 	6-4/235, 4.68
Jared Cook            TE   South Carolina  2-3 	6-5/240, 4.58
Andrew Davie          TE   Arkansas       UDFA   6-5/265

Kenny Britt           WR   Rutgers          2 	6-4/215, 4.54
Jeremy Childs         WR   Boise State     6-7 	6-0/196, 4.48
Austin Collie         WR   BYU              4 	6-2/206, 4.56
Michael Crabtree      WR   Texas Tech       1 	6-3/214, 4.54
Brian Hartline        WR   Ohio State     UDFA   6-2/186, 4.54
Percy Harvin          WR   Florida          1 	5-11/195, 4.36
Darrius Heyward-Bey   WR   Maryland        1-2 	6-2/206, 4.37
Jeremy Maclin         WR   Missouri         1 	6-1/200, 4.38
Hakeem Nicks          WR   North Carolina  1-2 	6-1/210, 4.57
Kevin Ogletree        WR   Virginia         6 	6-2/190, 4.50

Greg Isdaner          OG   West Virginia   6-7 	6-4/322, 5.19
Eben Britton          OT   Arizona         1-2 	6-6/310, 5.09
Andre Smith           OT   Alabama          1 	6-4/340, 5.28

Asher Allen           CB   Georgia         2-3 	5-10/198, 4.48
Jairus Byrd           CB   Oregon          2-3 	6-0/205, 4.58
Vontae Davis          CB   Illinois         1 	6-0/204, 4.42
D.J. Moore            CB   Vanderbilt       1 	5-10/184, 4.45
Captain Munnerlyn     CB   South Carolina  3-4 	5-09/185, 4.39
Jerraud Powers        CB   Auburn          5-6 	5-09/192, 4.49
Sean Smith            CB   Utah            1-2 	6-3/210, 4.52
Donald Washington     CB   Ohio State      7-FA 	6-0/194, 4.52

Everette Brown        DE   Florida State    1 	6-4/252, 4.65
Maurice Evans         DE   Penn State      6-7 	6-2/265, 4.76
Paul Kruger           DE   Utah            1-2 	6-5/265, 4.68
Brandon Williams      DE   Texas Tech      3-4 	6-5/252, 4.76

Aaron Maybin          OLB  Penn State      1-2 	6-4/248, 4.67
Gerald McRath         ILB  Southern Miss   3-4 	6-3/224, 4.62

Chris Baker           DT   Hampton         5-6 	6-2/308, 5.08
Ricky Jean-Francois   DT   LSU              4 	6-3/290, 4.86
Sen'Derrick Marks     DT   Auburn          2-3 	6-1/295, 4.93

Emanuel Cook          SS   South Carolina   3 	5-10/205, 4.52

***patchick*** · 01-19-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Riddler

patchick, I understand what you're saying, yet I do think you are including a tad too much in your scenario. This trade value in terms of numbers exceeds what would have been required to jump from 62 to 37, removing Wilhite and including Slater is the more likely scenario, to make that jump up to 37, not Wilhite. So in all fairness it would have been (DRC/Curtis Lofton) vs (Mayo/Wheatley/O'Connell/Slater).

Maybe, it's an unknowable. You can't just look at exactly where a player ended up and calculate the "value chart" after the fact; you have to figure out what your move would have been on draft day if you were desperate to move all the way up from 62 to, say, 30-35. And that's part of the problem: the Pats would have been desperate.

CB was the deepest position in last year's draft, and it's a position where the Pats have historically done very well in rounds 2+. ILB, in contrast, has been the single hardest position on the field for BB to fill -- and they needed an immediate starter. So you can take your ideal ILB target first, then sit back and wait knowing that a lot of CB talent remains. Or you can take your ideal CB first and then plan to give up whatever it takes to get the only remaining ILB option.

Regardless of what I think of DRC (and I liked him a ton), the "choice" of DRC+Lofton would have been a wildly risky draft strategy and cost extra picks, starting with the valuable Mr. O'Connell. So I'm with Mayoclinic on this:

Quote:

Lofton just wasn't going to happen last year. He was obviously going to go late 1st/early 2nd, so with picks at 7 and 63 there was no realistic way that we could get him if we had taken DRC in the 1st round.

EDIT: I'm feeling bad about contributing to the derailing of this very useful thread, so I'm creating a new "Coulda, Shoulda" thread for debating past draft decisions. Let's take this discussion there. Thanks

VJCPatriot · 01-19-2009, 08:39 AM

Brandon Flowers could have been taken by the Pats actually... if pick #32 hadn't been stolen. I thought he was the best 'little guy' CB in the draft and I loved his physicality against wide receivers.

dryheat44 · 01-19-2009, 10:35 AM

[QUOTE=The_Riddler;1254402]Brandon Flowers, a guy both Mike Mayock (#1 on his CB board) and DryHeat44 loved prior to the 08 draft, had a tremendous year for the Chiefs. Here's a complete breakdown from Tony Pisano with his "two cents" on each Corner.

Top 50 Cornerback Rankings
By: Tony Pisano
January 12, 2009 5:29pm CST

In this article I will breakdown over 50 NFL CBs individually. I watched all 256 NFL regular season games and made extensive notes on almost every CB in the league. Based on the statistics I created, and the eyes with which I watched the games, I have created a list of the top 50 CBs, and a few extras.

1. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
Season Totals: 29 attempts, 4.97 YPA, 62.07 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: Was this the best season every for a CB? Asomugha was only thrown at 29 times the entire season and allowed just 9 receptions. He allowed two catches (both to Tony Gonzalez) over an eight game span in the middle of the season. He allowed 144 yards receiving for the season, and 46 of those came on one play against the Chargers where he misjudged an underthrown pass to Vincent Jackson. If a CB has had a better season than this, I’d like to see the numbers.
[B][\quote]

Best thing to take from this list is that the Raiders have three of the top 11 CBs...which means maybe they could be talked into trading Asomugha