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  #11  
Old 11-15-2008, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: As I was saying...

Thought about this some more, although Watson has been a slightly above average TE and Thomas has potential I rate both of these picks among the worst in the past several years. They were both 'glory' picks, the team had adequate depth at TE when both players were selected yet ignored more obvious pressing concerns. In 04 with Watson the Pats could have had Bob Sanders.

I can't think of a single TE drafted in round 1 that has truly made an impact, beyond what a 5th rounder could do. Winslow has been good but also missed a lot of time. TE is a tough guy position, staying on the field is half the battle.

Put me in the 'No first round TEs' club...
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2008, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cstjohn17 View Post
Thought about this some more, although Watson has been a slightly above average TE and Thomas has potential I rate both of these picks among the worst in the past several years. They were both 'glory' picks, the team had adequate depth at TE when both players were selected yet ignored more obvious pressing concerns. In 04 with Watson the Pats could have had Bob Sanders.

I can't think of a single TE drafted in round 1 that has truly made an impact, beyond what a 5th rounder could do. Winslow has been good but also missed a lot of time. TE is a tough guy position, staying on the field is half the battle.

Put me in the 'No first round TEs' club...
Yes, TE is a "tough guy" position. They weigh in around 250-260 and block in-line against guys weighing up to 350 lbs. They do most of their work in the middle of the field where the defense's heavy hitters - Linebackers, Safeties - roam. They are quite often a safety valve for the QB, which puts them directly in the defense's bullseye. There's a reason BB has tried to go three deep with a developing TE on the Practice Squad. Day One (rounds one and two) is where I want to see BB shopping for a player with the talent to make plays and the toughness to wham block a Jenkins or go head to head with Dwight Freeney.
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Coach Bill Belichick was asked what his decision not to bring in a veteran backup quarterback says about his confidence in Cassel.

"I don't know what else it could say. That's it. He's our quarterback," he said. [Boston Globe]

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  #13  
Old 11-15-2008, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: As I was saying...

the pats offense lost its toughness the moment daniel graham left..........

not saying they should have paid him, but he had the size and attitude to abuse 4-3 DE's.......he was not a bad pick, and proved his worth in ways other than in pass-catching stats........

jared bronson may be good value.....good size, good hands
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2008, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: As I was saying...

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Originally Posted by cstjohn17 View Post
Thought about this some more, although Watson has been a slightly above average TE and Thomas has potential I rate both of these picks among the worst in the past several years. They were both 'glory' picks, the team had adequate depth at TE when both players were selected yet ignored more obvious pressing concerns. In 04 with Watson the Pats could have had Bob Sanders.

I can't think of a single TE drafted in round 1 that has truly made an impact, beyond what a 5th rounder could do. Winslow has been good but also missed a lot of time. TE is a tough guy position, staying on the field is half the battle.

Put me in the 'No first round TEs' club...

Put me in that club, too.

The NEP have far, far too many actual needs to be wasting their time drafting a Day 1 (first 2 rounds now) TE. The NEP need a blocking TE more than they need a pass-catching-only TE, and blocking TEs can be acquired throughout the draft and post-draft. The FO just needs to do the work to find one.
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  #15  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: As I was saying...

I've been thinking - What about grabbing a stopgap TE in free agency? That would let them see how the Thomas and Watson situations play out, and they can then address the need in the 2010 draft with more information on the future of that position. They could look for what they saw in Kyle Brady, a guy who can make their running game more effective and pass protect (although it turned out K. Brady couldn't do that so much anymore).

Mark Campbell is a UFA for the Saints. Ravens' Quinn Sypniewski is coming off an ACL injury, he's noted as a good blocker, Pats could take a flier on him if he's healthy. Will Heller, another guy noted as a good blocking TE with good size is a UFA for the Seahawks.
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  #16  
Old 11-16-2008, 12:49 PM
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I've been thinking - What about grabbing a stopgap TE in free agency? That would let them see how the Thomas and Watson situations play out, and they can then address the need in the 2010 draft with more information on the future of that position. They could look for what they saw in Kyle Brady, a guy who can make their running game more effective and pass protect (although it turned out K. Brady couldn't do that so much anymore).

Mark Campbell is a UFA for the Saints. Ravens' Quinn Sypniewski is coming off an ACL injury, he's noted as a good blocker, Pats could take a flier on him if he's healthy. Will Heller, another guy noted as a good blocking TE with good size is a UFA for the Seahawks.
I liked Sypniewski as a late round TE when he came out, the problem with an ACL injury for a receiver or RB is they have to cut more than a QB does, so his first year may be very limited.
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Coach Bill Belichick was asked what his decision not to bring in a veteran backup quarterback says about his confidence in Cassel.

"I don't know what else it could say. That's it. He's our quarterback," he said. [Boston Globe]

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  #17  
Old 11-16-2008, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: As I was saying...

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Originally Posted by tanked_as_usual View Post
the pats offense lost its toughness the moment daniel graham left..........

not saying they should have paid him, but he had the size and attitude to abuse 4-3 DE's.......he was not a bad pick, and proved his worth in ways other than in pass-catching stats........

jared bronson may be good value.....good size, good hands
The key word is "attitude." Watson and Thomas both have the same size Graham had, they just don't seem to have that same nasty attitude he used to match defender's intensity.
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Coach Bill Belichick was asked what his decision not to bring in a veteran backup quarterback says about his confidence in Cassel.

"I don't know what else it could say. That's it. He's our quarterback," he said. [Boston Globe]

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  #18  
Old 11-16-2008, 03:04 PM
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I liked Sypniewski as a late round TE when he came out, the problem with an ACL injury for a receiver or RB is they have to cut more than a QB does, so his first year may be very limited.
True, but I believe the injury happened during TC, so he should have plenty of rehab time at least.
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2008, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: As I was saying...

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The key word is "attitude." Watson and Thomas both have the same size Graham had, they just don't seem to have that same nasty attitude he used to match defender's intensity.
that is incorrect........graham's regular playing weight with the pats was around 270lbs, and he's much stronger than either, especially in the legs........watson is in the low 250's and thomas is in the high 240's

yes, he had the attitude, also, but he is bigger and stronger than eithe guy the pats have now
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  #20  
Old 11-17-2008, 12:32 AM
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that is incorrect........graham's regular playing weight with the pats was around 270lbs, and he's much stronger than either, especially in the legs........watson is in the low 250's and thomas is in the high 240's

yes, he had the attitude, also, but he is bigger and stronger than eithe guy the pats have now
Presumably you have access to data not published by the Patriots: Official New England Patriots - Team - Roster Reports

Graham: 6'3" 257 (For his Combine he was measured at 6'3" 248)
Thomas: 6'3" 248 (For his Combine he was measured at 6'3" 252)
Watson: 6'3" 255 (For his Combine he was measured at 6'3" 258)

For his first year, the Pats listed Graham at 6'3" 253. Official New England Patriots - Team - Roster Reports

It is entirely likely the Pats don't provide accurate data on the roster sheet regarding a player's actual weight and height, but looking at Graham and Watson side-by-side I never noticed one to be more imposing physically than the other. Kyle Brady was listed at 6'6" 280, he looked like the Hulk next to Watson.
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Coach Bill Belichick was asked what his decision not to bring in a veteran backup quarterback says about his confidence in Cassel.

"I don't know what else it could say. That's it. He's our quarterback," he said. [Boston Globe]

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